- 22 Replies
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 1:35 pm
Depends. Sometimes they are reviewed and sometimes it isn’t required. It’s all about the rules, zoning, regulations.
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 1:42 pm
Also depends upon the ??humans? doing the reviewing. Their approach tends to vary, widely.
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 1:48 pm
Allow me to rephrase your question – Should landowners be allowed to create non-conforming lots through the action of BLA?
I’ve practiced this profession British Columbia (Torrens System), and 2 recording states. Local agency review, seemingly to the point of anal examination, has always been a fact of this life for me.
I guess it comes down to just what they are reviewing for.
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 2:47 pm
If the BLA is to resolve a bona fide ambiguity and the resolution is within the bounds of possible interpretations, the survey should not be subject to fees or review as a land division or transfer. The key word here is ‘should’. You need to look at the laws and ordinances in your jurisdiction to make sure they track that way. If they don’t you need to get them changed.
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 2:47 pm
1. If the BLA is being used to clear up an ambiguity in the record, NO. That is not something any local agency should be involved in. It is None Of Their Business.
2. If the BLA is being used to move lines, then perhaps it is a good idea if there is a potential that one of the resulting parcels may not conform to codes making it difficult to develop.
Note: Lenders/Mortgage holders need to be consulted (or their influence must be considered at a minimum)! They actually hold a “higher interest” in the lands than the “owners”
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 5:54 pm
In the context of this thread BLA is boundary line agreement. That process is well defined by case law in most jurisdictions and by statute in others. It is improper in any jurisdiction to use a boundary line agreement to transfer property. Where the laws and ordinances on the two get mixed up we should be ‘unmixing’ them..
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 6:43 pm
yes, BLA = Boundary Line Agreement
Not to disagree, but I am working on a ranch, a large one.
Original ranch was divided in two parts by Deeds. The owners had me do a bit of rough location work (for water reservoirs) and it was found that the Deeds did not follow the lines on the ground as either understood them to be when they divided the land. (Nobody is stepping forward and “remembering” who created the descriptions, but that is off point.)
So, I suggested a simple BLA, but as I am 99% retired that is being done by another surveyor. (I have no interest in more than the recon and planning phase, the rest is just Labor in my mind.)
In this case we don’t need a Civil Servant involved, and there is no statute to prohibit transferring the land without Local Agency permission.
- MemberJuly 16, 2019 at 8:05 pm
What you are describing would be called a boundary line adjustment in the jurisdictions I am familiar with. If the property transfer does not meet the requirements triggering P&Z or other approval there is no need for application and review. In that sense we don’t disagree.
The separation I was talking about is simple. If an ambiguity exists then an agreement is the proper remedy. If owners want to move lines then it’s an adjustment. This discussion is a perfect example of why the two processes should be defined and kept separate. Owners should not be charged review fees for resolving ambiguities, and others should not abuse the process to avoid review of boundary adjustments.
- MemberJuly 17, 2019 at 3:47 pm
It would help to know the jurisdiction of the OP, but in WA, a BLA is different from a BLA.
Boundary Line Adjustment = Review
Boundary Line Agreement = No review (but many (most or all?) counties will not allow them)
In theory, two land owners could quit claim to the other the adjoining lot and I could just show it on a Record of Survey. (Not advisable, and that is basically what a BLAgreement is).
The issue isn’t really about clearing up ownership issues (encroachments, which is what a Boundary Line Adjustment is for) or defining a unknown boundary (Agreement). The key issue is having a legal lot that you can build on at the end. You will find that hard to obtain in many jurisdictions without review.-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 1:53 pm
Ambiguity is not required to have a valid boundary location agreement, only uncertainty which means the property owners don’t know where the boundary is located, if they don’t know then they aren’t moving it, only agreeing as to where it is located.
There are a lot of moving parts but to simplify I would say if the uncertainty is objective (for example, property corners are marked by an old survey) then do a Boundary Location Agreement and leave the agency out of it. If the uncertainty is subjective (usually a fence of unknown origin) and the neighbors are agreeable then do a Boundary Line Adjustment (if it can meet zoning and get approved) even though technically it may not be required. However, there are numerous exceptions and left turns to the above.
Probably in a lot of cases if a boundary line adjustment can be pushed through and the owners are agreeable then that would be the best way to cement it into place in all the different points of authority (owners, title companies, lenders, local agency).
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 3:20 pm
“Ambiguity is not required to have a valid boundary location agreement…”
It is not necessary that the boundary be unknowable- only that the parties do not know it.
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 3:29 pm
“It is not necessary that the boundary be unknowable- only that the parties do not know it. ”
There have been a bunch of generalizations stated in this thread, but, as we all know (at least should know), boundary by agreement, acquiescence, etc., varies from state to state, therefore it is imperative that we thoroughly know the law in the states we practice in. But, I do know that in the states I practice in (and others I am familiar with), a boundary agreement is NOT a transfer of land nor a “moving” of the boundary.
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 4:54 pm
I think so… if you assist n creating a non-conforming parcel you could be held responsible for damages. It should definitely be reviewed by the Mortgage Co.
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 4:57 pm
think so… if you assist in creating a non-conforming parcel you could be held responsible for damages. It should definitely be reviewed by the Mortgage Co.
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 6:17 pm
It is not what I think, it is what they think.
Paul in PA
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Mark today down, I agree 100% with Brian.
Here in NY most planning/zoning boards don’t even have jurisdiction over LLA. Most of their enabling law speaks only to subdivision and the creation of a new lots. If the boundary is unknown its a BLA (exchange quit claim deeds) if the boundary is known its a LLA (exchange warranty deeds)
- MemberJuly 18, 2019 at 6:48 pm
My comment may have been ambiguous.
An ambiguity in the Deed description is not required for a valid Boundary Location Agreement. In the context of boundary location “uncertainty” means the property owners don’t know where the boundary is located.
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