In Hawaii a US census worker was arrested for trespassing. The US has gotten the case moved to Federal Court. US Attorneys are claiming that the Census Worker is protected by the U.S. Constitution for actions taken in his capacity as a federal employee. I am at a loss to find anything even close in my copy of the US Constitution.
The story can be found at:
This is my first attempt at linking on this forum.
Paul in PA
The census worker is most likely not even a Federal employee in the first place. The ones around here are sub-contractors and, since the Constitution doesn't give the government the authority to do most of what it now does, I'm not even sure it's even worth a re-reading to try to find some self-appointed government exclusion from accountability.
Well, your link worked. Ain't it kind of slick the way it works here! Pictures also do real nice as well.
As to the article, I've kind of mixed emotions. There is nothing in the constitution that I know of that gives a federal employee the right to trespass unless he is a police officer and has a warrant.
On the other hand, I can't believe a police officer (well, maybe I can, but that's another story) would be such an a-hole to not even accept a piece of paper. Think of what he would do if you refused to accept a summons from him.
I don't think the census taker should be prosecuted, but he should have got when he was told to git.
Can A Federal Land Surveyor Open A Gate And Tresspass ?
While the surveyor might have some authority it would be through specific statutes and not the Constitution.
I believe it has been upheld in Federal Court that Consdtitutionally one could shoot and kill an unannounced armed FBI Agent and be guilty of no crime.
What would possess anyone with lesser authority to even risk it?
Since the Constitution does not directly address tresspassing that right is reserved to the states. Hawaii has a specific statute that the state says was violated. A prudent Federal Judge (please don't laugh at that oxymoron) would remand this back to the state court.
Paul in PA
The argument will probably be that since the Constitution requires a Census, there is an implied right of entry. How else could the government properly count everybody if they could not go to where the people are?
I don't necessarily argree with the argument, implied rights can be a slippery slope.
Would Not The Census Worker Be Required ?
To appear before a Fedral Judge and secure a warrant?
Paul in PA
The word "census" does not appear in the US Constitution.
A decennial "enumeration" for the purpose of apportionment is required by the Constitution.
Title XIII of the United States Code creates and authorizes the census for the purpose of meeting the enumeration requirement in the constitution. It clearly authorizes census workers to go door to door to complete the enumeration.
The first census in 1790, and at least the next six were conducted by deputy US Marshals going door to door on horseback.
Can A Federal Land Surveyor Open A Gate And Tresspass ?
I believe it has been upheld in Federal Court that Constitutionally one could shoot and kill an unannounced armed FBI Agent and be guilty of no crime.
Could you give me a citation for that one. I don't believe it. Every State I know of has restrictions on the use of deadly force especially against a law enforcement official.
Merlin, You Asked About Deadly Force
The place is Ruby Ridge, Idaho, the date is August 21, 1992.
US Marshals throw rocks at Randy Weavers cabin to test the dogs. Randy's dog Striker takes off into the woods. The dog is followed by Randy Weaver's son, Samuel carrying a Ruger Mini 14 and Randy's friend Kevin Harris carrying a 1917 Enfield 30-06.
The account accepted as true was that the dog ran up to the Deputy US Marshall Larry Cooper who was wearing camoflage in a friendly manner. The dog then ran to Art Roderick who shot and killed the dog. Sammy Weaver cursed Roderick and fired at him. Bill Degan came out of the woods firing his M-16 shooting Sammy in the arm. Harris shot Degan, killing him. Cooper fired a 9mm Colt submachine gun at Harris, then shot Sammy in the back. Cooper then announced he was a US Marshall.
The next day an FBI sniper shot Randy Weaver and then shot and killed Randy Weaver's wife Vicki.
At trial in 1993 Keven Harris was found not guilty of murder of US Marshall Bill Degan by reason of self defense. The US Government never admitted to any wrong doing but paid Kevin Harris $380,000. Randy Weaver was convicted of missing a court appearance, fined $10,000 and served 4 months in jail. Again the US Government never admitted to any wrong doing but paid the surviving Weavers $3,100,000.
What the government learned from this was to kill all the witnesses as evidenced at Waco, Texas.
What we should learn is don't bring rocks to a gun fight.
My previous statement was wrong in that it was a US Marshall, not an FBI Agent that was justifiably killed.
Paul in PA
Shhh, Carl. We're supposed to believe this Census stuff is some entirely new fangled strong-arm fascist Obamanation.
Don't be interrupting the stream with those pesky facts.
😉
Paul-the original issue was trespass not self-defense.
At trial in 1993 Keven Harris was found not guilty of murder of US Marshall Bill Degan by reason of self defense.
Paul that is a completely different situation than the one you initially described. I agree with the jury on that one, but the issue was not trespassing, it was self defense after being wrongfully fired upon by the Feds.
Sorry Merlin, Your Question Was On Deadly Force
Which I responded to.
This past hunting season in PA, a trespass led to shooting and a death. It has been determined that no crime was committed.
Since the Constitution gives rights to arm ourselves and be secure in our possessions trespasses can escalate to fatal circumstances.
The census official may well have had the right to enter the premises, but once he was asked to leave and did not, he was trespassing.
Paul in PA
