If you don??t use apple, on ox hunt can help you find stuff.?ÿ
nate
If you are just trying to plot the property on a plan, to see the geometry, then use the deed description.?ÿ It won't be perfect, especially if it is older, but I think it makes more sense than shelling out thousands for equipment, which you may know the math and have the tech-savvy to use, but without an understanding of the legal side of boundary surveying it is useless.
When you factor in all of the extras that go with a total station you are looking at 3k+ for a manual total station, that is used and old, and will require a 2nd person to run efficiently.?ÿ Even if you get an old Leica 805, or Nikon NPL dojigger, you will still need to buy a prism, prism pole, tape, tripod, batteries, etc.?ÿ It just doesn't seem worth it for what you need.
You can get some less expensive GPS units, but to get two units to run real-time corrections it will cost you 4k+ for even the cheapest old equipment, and the cheap equipment requires a lot more knowledge to keep running accurately, and I cannot imagine someone putting in that kind of time.?ÿ Older units also require more knowledge, as they are not "turn-key" like the 30k stuff, and you cannot get support when troubleshooting problems.
Obviously, by buying old equipment you run the risk of getting stuff that doesn't work right, or doesn't last.
The prices I gave are truly bottom of the barrel... It just isn't worth messing with... especially without experience with the equipment.
I would suggest finding the corners the best you can with a metal locator, plotting it based on the deed description, and using your phone for coordinates (if there is a distinguishing feature you can pick out on google then use google earth.)?ÿ This will give you some idea of what you own.?ÿ When you need a survey, spend the money on a surveyor.?ÿ Even with all of the equipment, you won't be sure of our corners until you spend the money on the surveyor, so why spend thousands on equipment to be a little more sure... (maybe)??ÿ You can know all the math and science behind surveying, but with understanding survey laws and standards all of that math is useless.?ÿ There are libraries filled with the knowledge needed for retracement surveying... that's why it requires years of experience and in many states a college education in surveying.?ÿ It's not as simple as finding a pin in the woods or plotting the geometry.?ÿ
Good luck!
Joe
@joe-b?ÿ
Well I made a hash of this by poorly stating what I was doing and not reading my audience. In the simplest terms I had thought to upgrade my hand held GPS to do what I have been doing successfully for 40 years on many different parcels. The thought that maybe now that GPS had matured there would be much more accurate equipment available used at a reasonable cost crossed my mind. You at least took the time to address the equipment that I asked about and I truly thank you for that. I guess its back to my pack with its 300' foot measure, compass and basic laser line.
Thank you.
The facts are:
GPS works. This is what is in your cell phone, or your Garmin Navigator.
You MUST use DGPS to get accurate shots. (Differential Global Positioning System) Differential, means DIFFERENCE. So, to illustrate: Take 2 sticks 10 feet long. Tape a needle to one, and the end of the thread to the other. Now, while HOLDING the sticks, so that the needle and thread are 10' away from you, thread that needle. You'll never get it. This is GPS.
Now, take the needle, and hold it in your hand, and the thread between your thumb and finger, rest your palms together, and wear your glasses, and now, you can thread the needle. This is DGPS.
When you do GPS, it is an autonomous position. This means it bounces around about 10', and about 20' in the woods. So, in theory, two shots, on the same point, in the woods could be wrong by as much as 40 feet. This is NOT adequate for surveying. But, it's great to find your truck, or atv.
Now, Lets go into the world of SURVEYING. DGPS
Set up a BASE survey GPS system, in a field, somewhere within a couple of miles of the survey site. This is called BASE. At the base, you have a GPS receiver, and a radio. This Radio is TRANSMITTING to the ROVER. It's sitting stationary all day long.
Now, take the ROVER, which is a GPS system, with a radio as well. It's radio only RECEIVES.
Now, if it's all up and running, the BASE is collecting, and processing, and SENDING the data over the Transmitting Radio. The ROVER is collecting all the same GPS data, as the base, but it is ALSO receiving the base data via the radio. Now, ALL the data is combined in the ROVER. The processor now can take BOTH piles of data (base and rover), and combine them into an actual difference between BASE and ROVER. We now have RTK GPS. (Real Time Kinematic). Now, we need a serious software package, to look at this data. It's called the Data Collector.
Now, we go into the woods. With the ROVER. It now, has signals bouncing all over, off the obstructions. So, only about 10% to 60% of the shots are any good. So, you now need some sort of multi-path filter, to get only the good data.
Now, there are ways to improve GPS. It's called corrections. There are a few different systems out now, that do your corrections from a FAR AWAY station. These generally can get you down to between 1 foot, and 3 feet. When you use this in the woods, it works poorly. Only about 5% to 20% are good. So, it is not efficient. These corrections go from a FAR AWAY ground station, then up to the satellites, and back to the ground at the rover. There are varying grades of this, but they are not great in woods. It is IMPROVING.
There are other means of getting the corrections from BASE to ROVER. One is cellular corrections.
In other words, to get the GOOD DGPS, you are at somewhere above 20k. To get GOOD DGPS in the woods, perhaps another 10k.
Then, you have to LEARN it all, and understand it, and become proficient. That's a basic story for you.
So, 1k is going to not get you into the game. But, your cell phone will allow you to find your truck.
I'm not being smart with you. It is just this way. Or pretty close.
Nate
?ÿ
i appreciate you taking the time to address the actual technology. Thx
You are welcome. Some folks assume because we charge what we do, that we are getting rich. When in fact, we are not very good business people. Who enjoy technology. And, we have addictions, to this sort of thing. So, IF you could get an addiction, then you might get in the game! 🙂
Nate
@one-eye?ÿ
I think everyone is just trying to help.?ÿ You unintentionally raised some red flags in what you said (as you seem to realize.)
We have all dealt with folks who think that "if they only had the equipment they could survey their property themselves."?ÿ I'm not assuming people think this, I've been told this multiple times by people.
Since you said you have been doing what you do for 40 years, on multiple properties you own/owned, I'm guessing you are a developer of some kind??ÿ Or, you run a business that requires the purchase of properties, such as farmland, warehouses, or something of the sort??ÿ Just curious.
Now, I don't know you, I'm just speaking based on my experience.?ÿ I'm writing this for anyone interested, and others who may stumble onto this thread.
We don't set pins solely based on the one deed you hold in your hand.?ÿ We need to look at the adjoining properties and past deeds, sometimes going back hundreds of years.?ÿ We can look at all kinds of evidence beyond the deeds and record surveys to make our determination.?ÿ And even then, the mathematical answers in the records are NOT always the location.?ÿ We weigh all of the evidence we have and make a decision based on that evidence.
In other words, if you found two or three pins and calculated the rest of the property based on your deed and those pins, even with all the equipment you couldn't be sure of where your corner is.?ÿ It takes a lot more effort and underlying education (whether self-taught or formal) than that, as you probably know from looking around this forum.?ÿ Most of our decision-making is not mathematical or scientific.?ÿ We use science and math, but there is no "boundary corner formula" for our decision-making.?ÿ
You could be out a foot or two, or ten...
Good luck with your investments
Joe
I am willing to spend up to $1,000.
I use an Emlid M2 receiver multi-constellation dual frequency receiver with a geodetic external antenna on a survey pole using a free Real Time correction network service. The results are repeatable at the 2 cm level when used properly. The system I use is under $1000 new. However, I have 30 years of RTK experience, and it requires configuring two devices (cell phone running free survey app with network connection and M2 receiver to a portable Mifi.) Being experienced allows me to know what to look for to ensure connections are working and corrections are being received and working properly as I go along. But to answer the question you can get into it for $1000. I don't think I can recommend it as something you can buy off the shelf, turn on and use without some level of support, training and practice. Once again, the system relies on two things. A real time reference station network broadcasting corrections on the internet and cell phone coverage. I probably would not recommend it for daily production but for a few locations here and there it works ok. It will be repeatable at the 1 meter level plus or minus without using corrections.?ÿ
?ÿ
Thanks to everyone here and an apology for not thinking before posting and then getting a bit testy at what in hind sight was the obvious reaction. I didn't stop to think that the average post like mine is from someone who bought their first little parcel in a subdivision and thinks they can save a buck by becoming an instant surveyor with just a small purchase (kind of insulting to the pros) or someone wishing to show their neighbor how wrong they are.?ÿ I'm not a professional developer, more of a hobbyist. I like to generally have a single small project at a time to spend my weekends and mental energies on and then move on to a new one in a year or two, but if you live long enough this adds up to quit a bit of experience. So in the last six month I have actually physically inspected 11 properties. Of those 4 where interesting enough to pull the parcel maps and legal description and go find the pins (boundary monuments if you prefer). That's 21 pins on four different parcels. You do that every couple of years and you develop a method that works, but I'm starting to show the years and my knees aren't what they used to be. So what has always been a fun afternoon in the woods playing detective sometimes now just becomes a pain the rear. So updating the method to make it easier is looking good. During all those years I have never had a boundary dispute. Why? Because as I mentioned, when in doubt at all, I hire a pro and then try and meet with the adjoining prop owner before altering the ground.?ÿ
So again, sorry for hitting the hot buttons by not thinking and a heart felt thank you for all of the people that took the time to reply.
