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4 SV Galileo Launch Today was Successful
Posted by plumb-bill on November 17, 2016 at 10:44 pmsquowse replied 7 years, 9 months ago 8 Members · 14 Replies -
14 Replies
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Nate The Surveyor, post: 400114, member: 291 wrote: More sats… Yum
Not sure I will benefit from these if I stay in the Southern hemisphere. Great news though. 4 Sats and the deployment was successful.
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Nate The Surveyor, post: 400114, member: 291 wrote: More sats… Yum
Agreed. I’m curious to see if this number constitutes enough reason for Javad to enable Galileo in their solutions. I was previously told they didn’t because “you need five”.
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Might be time to enable Galileo and L5 on a couple of R10s and go do some testing.
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Yes, I think I have become somewhat a pain to the Javad team…. I have tried to explain that I was using a 1923 Adolph Leitz San Francisco Transit, and 300′ tape, in my dad’s survey business, until 1985.
And, that my fanaticism is related to being backward for too long.
I call them, about once every few months, and want a progress update on this very matter. You may think I am a Javad fan, but I think of myself as being “Anti backward”. Or, another way to say it, is I don’t wish to be behind any more than I have to.I do think of the day we got the Topcon GTS 3-C. The sales guy TRIED to sell us a Sokkia, which was a bit inferior. (Remember the Set 3’s and set 4’s?) I don’t believe they are as well made. You had to index them every time you turned them on, by flipping the scope, and sighting a point 2 times. The Topcon, you just had to rotate the telescope, across horizontal, and it was indexed.
Anyway, it has made me into a tiger, who wants the best surveying gear possible.
The next 25 yrs will see GPS “come of age”. RTK will become more accurate, as more sats go up. And, it SEEMS to me, that the “Other” (Non Javad) manufacturers are playing the waiting game…. Wait til MORE sats are in the sky, and THEN they will perform better in harsh environments.Another thing, that somewhat baffles me, is that many equipment mfr’s are making you PAY out the nose for anything but BASIC GPS. (Glonass and USA)
Something like this: Complete, ready to survey GPS system, out the door, 40k. Complete with 35 watt radio.
You want Galileo, AH, another 5k. You want Korean Sats? Ah, another 5k. you want Bedeu? Ahhhh another 5k!
You want Tilt sensor, and IMS, ha ha! another 5k.
These add on’s make it perform BETTER, but, how much? Ummmm nobody knows, cause nobody can afford it!!! For some of these companies, it is strictly an ELECTRONIC turn on. So, it is already there, just not turned on.And, just remember, GPS NO WORK in the WOODS!!
And then…
I get shots in places like this, which are FULLY verified! (This means that it has been through an automated process, where it gains fix, looses fix, some 15 times, in a row, then observes the BEST coordinate group, for 3 mins, then goes BACK to check that it really has the BEST group)
Do you see the 2 additional flags in the above pic? I shot those also. Spent maybe 15 min on those 3 points, ie, 5 min each. And, box taped between them. They are about 5 ft apart.
Not a problem. Less than a tenth error, per shot, in THAT environment.According to my last call to Michael Gluting, (he’s a voice on the telephone, in California, who also knows me!) Javad is supposed to begin supporting “All Constellations” sometime this fall, or Early 2017.
Being ABLE to go tie MORE and with high CONFIDENCE, has made me a better surveyor.
Nate
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Hey, Lee, If I were closer, I’d be happy to go “Investigate” that with you!
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I’m not in a huge rush just yet. From the article linked above:
Not all are fully operational but Galileo‰Ûªs owner, the European Commission, said the Nov. 17 launch should permit initial Galileo services to begin by the end of this year.
Having said that. It is very exciting. I don’t know what the effect will be, but given the much stronger signal from Galileo satellites and the simple improvement of geometry that more satellites will bring is very encouraging.
The article mentioned “several months of in-orbit checkout”, so I’m not sure when these four satellites will actually be contributing.
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Unfortunately the full capability of these additional constellations won’t be realized until several things happen. The National Geodetic Survey needs to develop improved software that goes beyond just GPS and embraces the full range of GNSS. This is at best I think 2-3 years away. They also need to work with the CORS network partners to upgrade GPS only stations to full GNSS capability – again a task that could easily take several years – remember that of the approximately 2300-2400 CORS the agency only owns about 40 of them. Additionally there is the issue of the Air Force turning on the full capability of L5 – I haven’t seen anything from them lately but their policy had been to withhold that capability until a full constellation of L5 enabled SVs is in orbit – that’s not likely to be until nearly mid 2020s.
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gschrock, post: 400271, member: 556 wrote: A few things; cause things might not be as distant as we might think..
While the 4 that have just launched will not be actively;y contributing to solutions for some time; there are folks who have been using signals from those that are already up there and in fully operational condition (FOC); and put them in real-time solutions and post-processing. The PPP service we use frequently includes both Compass and Gal in its solutions. Many of the stations in our RTN track all of the above; and we in the middle of upgrading a pile more. We’ve tested Compass in real-time solutions and Gal in post-processed – just about to complete tests with Gal in real-time (using RTCM3.2 and CMRx).
Contrary to popular belief; the manufacturers are not in a wait and see mode; nearly all track them all, and have for quite some time; though you do have options to buy less expensive versions with just GPS-GLN. Even a single sat of other constellations (that is in FOC) can be utilized in some solutions. While L5/E5 (e.g. third signal) solutions are a ways off until there are enough of therm in the sky; all four of the main constellations support two signals and can augment GNSS solutions. Developers have not been sitting on their hands – more (albeit limited) – folks are not letting those go to waste.
There is a part of the planet where the 4 constellations, plus QZSS, and IRNSS sats can be viewed (a swath of Asia and Australia) and developers (even the big name ones have facilities over there) are all over it.
Is it a make or break situation? No, but every new set of sats launched means an incremental move forward…
Thanks for the input, I thought this was the case. There are a lot of VRS systems in CUONUS that are GPS/GLO only, but mostly because of age of the CORS stations therein. The new SVs make the case for a local base much stronger.
I personally would love to know more about why some RTK algorithms use SVs from different constellations while others take a “need 5 minimum” approach. I’m not sure that one is really superior to the other, only that they’re different. For example, J-boxes (as you call them) seem to deliver quite admirable performance using the T2 as a base (and it is only GPS/GLO capable).
I also wonder if the proliferation of modern signals favors engines like the HD GNSS in the R10 more than the traditional Fix/Float engines in all of the Trimble OEM board-driven solutions.
I am somewhat like what Nate describes above. I totally geek out on this stuff, but because there’s nothing I hate more than dropping considerable coin only to facepalm myself the next week. Which seems to happen more than I like to admit.
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base9geodesy, post: 400261, member: 7189 wrote: the full capability of these additional constellations won’t be realized until several things happen
I will mention that none (as in zero) of the antennas have calibrations for Galileo (or BDU) at this time. So I would think that if you are going to used with unmatched base/rover antennas it might be nice to have a valid absolute calibration.
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Mark Silver, post: 400281, member: 1087 wrote: I will mention that none (as in zero) of the antennas have calibrations for Galileo (or BDU) at this time. So I would think that if you are going to used with unmatched base/rover antennas it might be nice to have a valid absolute calibration.
I always look forward to the “Silver linings” 🙂
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About a week away from picking up Base & rover Leica GS14 uhf 1 watt
it has the ability to track Galileo as a $3000.00 option
so the BIG question are any you day in day out RTK construction types using
GPS GLONASS & Galileo on your brand of GPS today..
or is Galileo just talk across all brands right now for rtk using UHF .
I do only RTK in my construction projects no PPP or static. -
Peter Kozub, post: 400372, member: 375 wrote: About a week away from picking up Base & rover Leica GS14 uhf 1 watt
it has the ability to track Galileo as a $3000.00 option
so the BIG question are any you day in day out RTK construction types using
GPS GLONASS & Galileo on your brand of GPS today..
or is Galileo just talk across all brands right now for rtk using UHF .
I do only RTK in my construction projects no PPP or static.I think it might be a while before Galileo is officially usable to you might want to wait and see if the upgrade cost comes down. I suspect it wont as they will want you to buy the “self-learning” GS16. Is the $3000 for both units? Maybe look at more enlightened manufacturers that include all constellations as standard? Or pay the price and get Leicas latest offerings if you are wedded to their software etc;
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