Landlocked parcel
Quote from john-hamilton on April 1, 2024, 11:28 amToday I was the successful bidder at a sheriff's sale on a 1.5 acre vacant parcel adjacent to mine that is landlocked. I have about 500 foot of common line, but on all other sides there are about 12 or 13 1/4 acre subdivision lots with houses. Realistically, the only access is through my property although one of the adjoiners could get it and use it as a much larger back yard, although they would not have enough access for a street or driveway.
Property was left over from late 60's subdivision and no taxes paid since 1970, which added up to $86K with interest and penalties. I convinced the school district to put it up for sale since that would put it back on the tax rolls. The law firm for the school district was very helpful, although the process to get it to sale took about 18 months.
So there was a court order to offer it for sale free and clear (all liens extinguished) for a minimum bid of $10K. But, to my surprise, someone started to bid against me. I finally got it for $25K, Even the law firm was totally surprised that there was a bidding war. It was on zoom, with only an ID number showing up when bidding, so I have no idea who the other bidder was. Or if they knew it was landlocked. I found a vacant lot in a nearby subdivision that is 0.25 acres for $100,000. But is is on a street, with utilities, etc. In any case the 1.5 acres adds a lot of value to my 8.5 acres because it gives me room so that I can design more than just a simple cul-de-sac, which is limited to 600 feet by regs.
For many years I was worried that someone would get it and try to obtain access through my property. Supposedly there is a remedy for landlocked parcels in PA, but I think the way it has been working is that you cannot SELL someone a landlocked parcel, you must give them access. But, if someone buys it with that knowledge, it would be difficult to get access.
https://www.mette.com/2017/02/20/access-to-landlocked-property/
Here is the situation, I own 667-K-50 and 667-K-65. The landlocked parcel I just got is 667-K-106.
There is no existing deed, it was just a leftover parcel when they developed the subdivision. It will be interesting to see how they handle creating a new deed.
Today I was the successful bidder at a sheriff's sale on a 1.5 acre vacant parcel adjacent to mine that is landlocked. I have about 500 foot of common line, but on all other sides there are about 12 or 13 1/4 acre subdivision lots with houses. Realistically, the only access is through my property although one of the adjoiners could get it and use it as a much larger back yard, although they would not have enough access for a street or driveway.
Property was left over from late 60's subdivision and no taxes paid since 1970, which added up to $86K with interest and penalties. I convinced the school district to put it up for sale since that would put it back on the tax rolls. The law firm for the school district was very helpful, although the process to get it to sale took about 18 months.
So there was a court order to offer it for sale free and clear (all liens extinguished) for a minimum bid of $10K. But, to my surprise, someone started to bid against me. I finally got it for $25K, Even the law firm was totally surprised that there was a bidding war. It was on zoom, with only an ID number showing up when bidding, so I have no idea who the other bidder was. Or if they knew it was landlocked. I found a vacant lot in a nearby subdivision that is 0.25 acres for $100,000. But is is on a street, with utilities, etc. In any case the 1.5 acres adds a lot of value to my 8.5 acres because it gives me room so that I can design more than just a simple cul-de-sac, which is limited to 600 feet by regs.
For many years I was worried that someone would get it and try to obtain access through my property. Supposedly there is a remedy for landlocked parcels in PA, but I think the way it has been working is that you cannot SELL someone a landlocked parcel, you must give them access. But, if someone buys it with that knowledge, it would be difficult to get access.
https://www.mette.com/2017/02/20/access-to-landlocked-property/
Here is the situation, I own 667-K-50 and 667-K-65. The landlocked parcel I just got is 667-K-106.
There is no existing deed, it was just a leftover parcel when they developed the subdivision. It will be interesting to see how they handle creating a new deed.
Quote from holy-cow on April 1, 2024, 11:39 amCongratulations. You have handled the situation well.
Question. There are many tracts adjoining this tract. Why could they not bid on it and add it to what they already own?
Congratulations. You have handled the situation well.
Question. There are many tracts adjoining this tract. Why could they not bid on it and add it to what they already own?
Quote from holy-cow on April 1, 2024, 11:41 amI reviewed a survey last week for a landlocked tract of more than 40 acres. The survey had a note that an ingress/egress easement was in process. That might not fly everywhere.
I reviewed a survey last week for a landlocked tract of more than 40 acres. The survey had a note that an ingress/egress easement was in process. That might not fly everywhere.
Quote from john-hamilton on April 1, 2024, 11:45 amYes, I was worried about that. I don't believe any of the adjoiners knew about the sale, though. I have met a few when I was walking the boundary looking for corners, but no one asked what was going on.
A guy last year came to my house and wanted access through my property to hunt in there, which is ridiculous since it is only 1.5 acres. He told me he got permission from the owner, and when I asked who that was (I knew the situation), he said it was the water company. I called him on that, then he began to offer me money to let him access it. There are some nice size deer in the area, I guess he was going to archery hunt (no discharge of firearms in the boro), but that still seems very dangerous to me.
Yes, I was worried about that. I don't believe any of the adjoiners knew about the sale, though. I have met a few when I was walking the boundary looking for corners, but no one asked what was going on.
A guy last year came to my house and wanted access through my property to hunt in there, which is ridiculous since it is only 1.5 acres. He told me he got permission from the owner, and when I asked who that was (I knew the situation), he said it was the water company. I called him on that, then he began to offer me money to let him access it. There are some nice size deer in the area, I guess he was going to archery hunt (no discharge of firearms in the boro), but that still seems very dangerous to me.
Quote from MightyMoe on April 1, 2024, 12:00 pmIt's good you picked it up. Since you're an adjacent owner you are the perfect person to buy it. Sherriff's deeds sometimes can't be usefully transferred to the buyer. At least one Supreme Court case in my state precluded the buyer of a Sherriff's deed from taking possession. This tract doesn't look like that's an issue.
It's good you picked it up. Since you're an adjacent owner you are the perfect person to buy it. Sherriff's deeds sometimes can't be usefully transferred to the buyer. At least one Supreme Court case in my state precluded the buyer of a Sherriff's deed from taking possession. This tract doesn't look like that's an issue.
Quote from john-hamilton on April 1, 2024, 12:55 pmHere is a related question...since there is no deed, I am assuming I am junior to the subdivision lots surrounding it. Interestingly, the tract to the north that I own is senior to the subdivision, but the subdivision encroaches by a few feet onto my property. It also encroaches by 5' onto the railroad (now a rail-to-trail). I believe there was some sloppy work done in the 1960's.
This is an area with no monumentation requirements and no recording requirements. I believe that these lots originally had hub and tack at the corners (at most), and a few got rebars and pipes set over the next 55 years. Most new property surveys I have seen in this immediate area are just a hub and tack with guard stake, seems like the local mortgage surveyors don't want to set anything more permanent.
I did a careful search for lot corners, and found some. Some of them were right on, others were up to 2' ' off in the direction of the side lot lines. My computed positions are based on locating all of the roads in the subdivision and some front lot corners on the street.
Not even the outer corners of the subdivision were monumented at the beginning. I did find a few substantial mons (2" pipes) and a couple of rebars that fit very well. The ones that didn't fit were solid 3" steel pipes on one property that stuck up about 30", so I am just assuming they were set by the property owner for whatever reason.
My question is, would you show on the new deed what was on the subdivision plan, or slightly zig zag through the found corners that fit reasonably well? I have no idea who will prepare the deed, this all just happened this afternoon and I need to go down to the sheriffs office to pay and see what the process is. The forms say I need to pay 1 $181.75 recording fee, and that "they" will prepare the deed. But maybe this situation is a bit different since it is vacant land with no deed prior to this sale
Here is a related question...since there is no deed, I am assuming I am junior to the subdivision lots surrounding it. Interestingly, the tract to the north that I own is senior to the subdivision, but the subdivision encroaches by a few feet onto my property. It also encroaches by 5' onto the railroad (now a rail-to-trail). I believe there was some sloppy work done in the 1960's.
This is an area with no monumentation requirements and no recording requirements. I believe that these lots originally had hub and tack at the corners (at most), and a few got rebars and pipes set over the next 55 years. Most new property surveys I have seen in this immediate area are just a hub and tack with guard stake, seems like the local mortgage surveyors don't want to set anything more permanent.
I did a careful search for lot corners, and found some. Some of them were right on, others were up to 2' ' off in the direction of the side lot lines. My computed positions are based on locating all of the roads in the subdivision and some front lot corners on the street.
Not even the outer corners of the subdivision were monumented at the beginning. I did find a few substantial mons (2" pipes) and a couple of rebars that fit very well. The ones that didn't fit were solid 3" steel pipes on one property that stuck up about 30", so I am just assuming they were set by the property owner for whatever reason.
My question is, would you show on the new deed what was on the subdivision plan, or slightly zig zag through the found corners that fit reasonably well? I have no idea who will prepare the deed, this all just happened this afternoon and I need to go down to the sheriffs office to pay and see what the process is. The forms say I need to pay 1 $181.75 recording fee, and that "they" will prepare the deed. But maybe this situation is a bit different since it is vacant land with no deed prior to this sale
Quote from chris-bouffard on April 1, 2024, 1:06 pmIt is interesting that the situation even exists. One would think that creating an access easement through some location within the subdivision would be required to access K106 while obtaining the final subdivision approval.
I have surveyed some "land locked" parcels in NJ over the years, but, there was always either access easements or pre existing agreements between the owner of the parcel and another owner allowing unrecorded access. In the cases where the means of access existed through lands of others, the title companies always required that the unrecorded access be formalized and recorded prior to insuring title.
I don't know what your future plans are with this newly acquired parcel, but you might want to consider consolidating K106 with K50 so that the common line between the two parcels is eliminated to avoid future problems.
It is interesting that the situation even exists. One would think that creating an access easement through some location within the subdivision would be required to access K106 while obtaining the final subdivision approval.
I have surveyed some "land locked" parcels in NJ over the years, but, there was always either access easements or pre existing agreements between the owner of the parcel and another owner allowing unrecorded access. In the cases where the means of access existed through lands of others, the title companies always required that the unrecorded access be formalized and recorded prior to insuring title.
I don't know what your future plans are with this newly acquired parcel, but you might want to consider consolidating K106 with K50 so that the common line between the two parcels is eliminated to avoid future problems.
Quote from ashton on April 1, 2024, 1:24 pmI suggest investigating how property taxes are computed. In my state, the value may be based on a recent arms-length sale (a distressed sale or tax auction probably wouldn't be considered). If there is no recent sale, a formula is applied by a computer that assigns a higher value to the acre closest to the house, and a lower per-acre value for the rest of the area. If either the parcel without a house that you already owned, or the new parcel are considered buildable lots, you may be paying higher property taxes than if they were all combined for tax purposes. It may be possible to have the three considered one property for tax purposes while still being three parcels in the land records.
I suggest investigating how property taxes are computed. In my state, the value may be based on a recent arms-length sale (a distressed sale or tax auction probably wouldn't be considered). If there is no recent sale, a formula is applied by a computer that assigns a higher value to the acre closest to the house, and a lower per-acre value for the rest of the area. If either the parcel without a house that you already owned, or the new parcel are considered buildable lots, you may be paying higher property taxes than if they were all combined for tax purposes. It may be possible to have the three considered one property for tax purposes while still being three parcels in the land records.
Quote from john-hamilton on April 1, 2024, 1:27 pmThis was from a different parent parcel (farm) than mine, but the subdivision used land from both parent parcels. I don't want to merge them because then I would need to do a subdivision if I wanted to, for example, build a house for my daughter on it. In this area, one house/parcel. Otherwise you need to do a formal subdivision. At this point I am planning on nothing, but in the future (maybe before I pass on or maybe after) I would want to make a subdivision here. I put my house at the far corner of my parcel so that it would not interfere with future development.
After this situation was created, no one ever used the land for anything, so no possibility of a prescriptive easement.
This was from a different parent parcel (farm) than mine, but the subdivision used land from both parent parcels. I don't want to merge them because then I would need to do a subdivision if I wanted to, for example, build a house for my daughter on it. In this area, one house/parcel. Otherwise you need to do a formal subdivision. At this point I am planning on nothing, but in the future (maybe before I pass on or maybe after) I would want to make a subdivision here. I put my house at the far corner of my parcel so that it would not interfere with future development.
After this situation was created, no one ever used the land for anything, so no possibility of a prescriptive easement.
Quote from MightyMoe on April 1, 2024, 1:41 pmThe new deed should follow the enclosing parcels. Unless monuments were disturbed they should be held since they are probably originals. I would also be very interested in occupation for this one.
The new deed should follow the enclosing parcels. Unless monuments were disturbed they should be held since they are probably originals. I would also be very interested in occupation for this one.