Field Book File To Civil 3D

#1 · October 23, 2024, 11:07 am

We just started using Carlson SurvPC on their field tablet. There is no selection in the raw data transfer drop down list for a Field Book File (.fbk file). We use Civil 3D in the office. Our CAD tech uses only .fbk files to do her work. What are my alternatives?

#2 · October 23, 2024, 11:30 am

What are my alternatives?

Well, about 7 years ago I had someone tell me fieldbook files were already obsolete so I think the alternative is to tell her to modernize her process.

#3 · October 23, 2024, 11:38 am

@BStrand

I agree, but easier said than done. Is there any way to convert a TDS or a SurvCE file to a .fbk file? Both of those are in the drop down list.

#4 · October 23, 2024, 11:48 am

I agree with @BStrand

The FBK process is painful, you can still import a .txt file in through the (Civil3D Toolspace) database, so your tech should have no issues.

If you are using C3D for your balancing (which is the only reason I can think of to use FBK, then it won't work. That will need to change.

#5 · October 23, 2024, 12:04 pm

FBK files were obsolete a decade ago. Not even sure how you would create one these days.

As @dmyhill stated, just use a .txt or .csv file, it does the same thing and is much easier to use.

#6 · October 23, 2024, 12:48 pm

I still use a field book file with the least squares adjustment routine in an old version of Land Desktop. I have been using field book files for over 25 years. They are an ascii file that is easy to understand and edit. I use Survey Pro with my Trimble S6 and export my raw data as an *.raw file which I convert in Land Desktop to a *.fbk file.

I also use SurvPC 7 on my RT4 tablet with my Carlson BRx7 base/rover GNSS system. In the export routine for coordinates you can export/create a TDS rw5 file which should be able to be converted in Civil 3D to a field book. I believe that much of the survey routine in Civil3D is the same as it was with Land Desktop. I also have Carlson Survey which I believe still allows for the use of a fbk file.

#7 · October 23, 2024, 12:55 pm

I agree with LES. A field book file (.fbk) is an ACSII file. You can understand the format to be the same as data we wrote in field books long ago.

I don't see how planned obsolescence is good for anyone other than software producers. Imagine if hand written notes became obsolete. You wouldn't be able to use them.

#8 · October 23, 2024, 12:57 pm

Quote from out-of-level on October 23, 2024, 12:57 pm
2 options: Carlson makes a desktop utility "Carlson X-Port". Last I knew you can download it from Carlson's site, it may function enough without registering (I don't recall). But if you find you need to register it you'll want to contact either Carlson or the merchant that sold you Carlson SurvPC for a registration/license key. It should be free if you bought SurvPC. In X-Port you simply open a RW5 file and then Tools>Export Raw Data>Fieldbook>Export Fieldbook.

The other way is within Civil3d: Home Tab > Create Ground Data > Survey Data collection link > In new popup: Conversions Tab > Convert File Format > Raw data file checked, TDS Raw Data (.rw5) for input type and "Autodesk-Softdesk FBK" for output type.

There are nuances with each approach. The main differences I recall are: x-port will keep all the pieces of turned sets intact (however it won't reduce them which can annoying influence LS adjustments in c3d, though that is another can of worms and I don't recommend doing LS adjustments in c3d using the tools in the survey database unless you really know whats going on there). Doing the conversion in c3d you will see turned sets disappear. Yes, disappear completely. so xport wins on that one.

If you are using line coding, such as CLS (close) PC, PT, etc. then xport is going to create a fbk file that follows the old approach of removing the special code from the end of the code and try to add it as a new line (before or after? dont recall) in the fbk. For example, if you store "EP PC" then the fbk via xport will have "EP" and then "C3" on the next(?) line (C3 is old command for start a 3 point curve). C3D doesn't use this approach for special codes anymore (I think it's from LDD days? I dunno). Converting to fbkvia c3d wins on this one.

So, if you're data doesn't have any turned sets and is just single sideshots and you are using line code commands you'll want to convert with C3D. If you have a bunch of doubled angles you'll want to convert with Carlson xport. This is the end of answering your question directly.

Now to soapbox a little: carlson xport does not create a fbk with reduced angles from any sets turned. My opinion is that this incorrectly represents that data in a least squares adjustment done inside the c3d survey database. However, if this is the only tool you have for adjustments it works, but it kinda can falsely imply poor angle residuals on each half of the turned set in you LS adjustment results (depending on how tight of an angle set your gun can turn).

I could go on, and yes I do agree that fbk's are archaic, but at the same time its a great process to force a complete understanding of the bare bones data that makes up conventional survey work. There are many much more user friendly tools/software out there that also enable combining data types, but I've always loved the basics of fbk files. Similar to how I still sometimes use WinCMM for horizontal adjustments.

Mehh, I guess that's all I'll rant about for now. But really, at least get Starnet or something.

2 options: Carlson makes a desktop utility "Carlson X-Port". Last I knew you can download it from Carlson's site, it may function enough without registering (I don't recall). But if you find you need to register it you'll want to contact either Carlson or the merchant that sold you Carlson SurvPC for a registration/license key. It should be free if you bought SurvPC. In X-Port you simply open a RW5 file and then Tools>Export Raw Data>Fieldbook>Export Fieldbook.

The other way is within Civil3d: Home Tab > Create Ground Data > Survey Data collection link > In new popup: Conversions Tab > Convert File Format > Raw data file checked, TDS Raw Data (.rw5) for input type and "Autodesk-Softdesk FBK" for output type.

There are nuances with each approach. The main differences I recall are: x-port will keep all the pieces of turned sets intact (however it won't reduce them which can annoying influence LS adjustments in c3d, though that is another can of worms and I don't recommend doing LS adjustments in c3d using the tools in the survey database unless you really know whats going on there). Doing the conversion in c3d you will see turned sets disappear. Yes, disappear completely. so xport wins on that one.

If you are using line coding, such as CLS (close) PC, PT, etc. then xport is going to create a fbk file that follows the old approach of removing the special code from the end of the code and try to add it as a new line (before or after? dont recall) in the fbk. For example, if you store "EP PC" then the fbk via xport will have "EP" and then "C3" on the next(?) line (C3 is old command for start a 3 point curve). C3D doesn't use this approach for special codes anymore (I think it's from LDD days? I dunno). Converting to fbkvia c3d wins on this one.

So, if you're data doesn't have any turned sets and is just single sideshots and you are using line code commands you'll want to convert with C3D. If you have a bunch of doubled angles you'll want to convert with Carlson xport. This is the end of answering your question directly.

Now to soapbox a little: carlson xport does not create a fbk with reduced angles from any sets turned. My opinion is that this incorrectly represents that data in a least squares adjustment done inside the c3d survey database. However, if this is the only tool you have for adjustments it works, but it kinda can falsely imply poor angle residuals on each half of the turned set in you LS adjustment results (depending on how tight of an angle set your gun can turn).

I could go on, and yes I do agree that fbk's are archaic, but at the same time its a great process to force a complete understanding of the bare bones data that makes up conventional survey work. There are many much more user friendly tools/software out there that also enable combining data types, but I've always loved the basics of fbk files. Similar to how I still sometimes use WinCMM for horizontal adjustments.

Mehh, I guess that's all I'll rant about for now. But really, at least get Starnet or something.

#9 · October 23, 2024, 3:26 pm

From the controller, you should be able to export the .RW5 file, which is the Carlson version of Civil 3d's FBK file.

You then convert the RW5 to FBK using the conversion tool that's found under the Toolbox tab of your Toolspace in Civil 3d.

The path to the converter is: Toolbox>Miscellaneous Utilities>Survey>Convert RW5 to FBK.

Once you've got the FBK, it can be imported as survey data into your dwg.

It's not going to provide much benefit though unless you've got your Prefix and Linework Codes and Description Key Sets configured in Civil 3d to match your field codes from the controller. You can't easily transfer the master code lists from SurvCE to 3d.

Good luck!

#10 · October 23, 2024, 5:11 pm

I'm interested in what office CAD and survey package you are using. While .fbk files can still be produced, and handled by modern C3d software - as far as that goes - I consider the processes that use fbk files to be obsolete. For example, some users have posted here that they can do LS adjustments using LDT and fbk files, but fbk has no provision for handling RTK vectors. The software that really likes to use fbk - namely LDT - is 15 years old at minimum. The C3d field to finish is light years ahead of the LDT version. So is Carlson's F2f. So I'm thinking that your question belies a need to examine your office processes in depth.