Hey all,
I am currently a second year Civ Eng student. I'm also a little older than your typical student - I'm 26.
I started college in the spring of 2017. I was interested in water and environmental engineering. Unfortunately, the more I learn about these fields the less interested I am in the day to day work. It mostly seems to be exclusively desk work. I understand that civil engineering is a very diverse field, but my idea of a fun job is more in the line of field work, collecting samples, etc. Bridge inspection seems a little cool, but mostly engineering is boring the crap out of me.?ÿ
My school also has a Survey Engineering Technology program. I started to look into it, and I think I would really like Surveying. I like the history of it, I like the grunt work, I like the methods of measuring stuff, and for some reason it just clicks. I have done a little entry level stuff, and I would rather be out in the cold with a rod being yelled at by some hard ass then sitting for hours waiting for a meeting to start or looking into the soulless depth of a CAD program. From the ages of 18-25 I mostly did outside jobs in agriculture and construction, and although I have the brains for an engineering degree, I think engineering - or at least school - is actually making me depressed. Not enough time outside or movement or something. I also like the idea of hanging my own shingle and owning a small survey business. It seems a little harder to have a small engineering business.?ÿ
So, if I have an interest in Surveying, and I think that it what I want to do, should I switch into the surveying program? At this point, I am so early that everything transfers. The physics and math classes I have taken are a little bit more advanced than the ones I would have taken as a Survey student, but they substitute right in.
I also don't know where I want to "settle down". From 18-25 I moved around a lot, and I would like to keep doing that. I want to go back to Oregon, Montana, Washington, Wyoming, California, and Arizona. As you know, all of these states have different requirements for surveyors.
Should I continue with my Civil engineering degree, and then, after I am sick of it, maybe spend a couple years working towards my surveying, or am I better of going into surveying? How common is it for states to accept a Civil Degree in place of a "pure" surveying degree? What are the trends in licensing? Are things getting more relaxed or more stringent? In some cases it seems like the survey degree is overkill for surveying seeing as how some states only require a couple credits. But, if I stay in Civil I am looking at maybe 12 credits in survey electives throughout the course of my degree due to my schedule and curriculum vs dozens of credits in the survey program.?ÿ
My natural inclination is that if I am interested in surveying to do the surveying program, but maybe this is a little limiting? Both programs are ABET accredited.?ÿ
I thought I would just throw my situation out there and see if anyone with more experience and know-how could maybe lend me a word of advice or two.?ÿ
Thanks!
I'd stick with the CE degree, and take as many surveying courses as you can, the ones required by the state you intend to eventually get your land surveying license in.
As said, you don't necessarily need a surveying degree, in many state.?ÿ And know that in general, civil engineering has a higher pay ceiling than surveying.
There's nothing wrong with being a PE and PLS; several on this board have dual licenses. I know several people who have both; I think all, only survey. It keeps the door open, though, when times are lean.
You can achieve both with an Engineering Degree; a lot easier than with just a Degree in surveying.
Good luck, in what ever you decide!
?ÿ
If I understand it correctly Washington is pretty lax about accepting academic experience, a symptom of not having a bachelor level survey program in the State.
In the general case, requirements are available online.
While rare I have met PE's that go to field, I have even met a couple of LS's that go to field but at the professional level it is rare in both disciplines so do not romanticize the field element of surveying too much.
I would consider a Survey track with exposure to Industrial Engineering and Construction Management to be a great way to start out, especially if you are open to travel.
LOL at 26 and "old".
Switch to that ABET-accredited survey program today and never look back.?ÿ
I think you should contact Knud Hermansen https://umaine.edu/svt/knud-hermansen/
The University of Maine
Surveying Engineering Technology
5711 Boardman Hall, rm 119
Orono, ME 04469-5711207.581.2340
Knud is a/an:
Professional engineer
Professional land surveyor
Attorney at law
Member of the:
American Society of Engineering Educators
Reserve Officers Association
American Society of Civil Engineers
National Society of Professional Engineers
National Society of Professional Surveyors (Fellow)
Maine State Bar Association
Maine Society of Land SurveyorsHe taught at Penn State University for four years before teaching at the University of Maine.
Knud currently teaches three to four courses a semester ?? from basic surveying to construction law. He teaches in the Surveying Engineering Technology program and the Construction Engineering Technology program.
"While rare I have met PE's that go to field, I have even met a couple of LS's that go to field but at the professional level it is rare in both disciplines so do not romanticize the field element of surveying too much."
This is one of the things wrong with our profession.?ÿ I'm not saying that we should be out all the time on all jobs, but we should be in the field often.
I wouldn't last without being able to go in the field a lot.
Life is too short to have a job you dont like. The top end money for a CE is usually above a PLS, but not enough to justify doing something you consider depressing.
As a multi-state PLS with about 40 years in I do fine money wise. I spend almost half my time in the field. Most of it is in the States you list.
The trend now is higher pay for Surveyors. The PNW market is on fire and now is a great time to dive in. I got my first license a few weeks short of my 40th birthday. Dont let that bother you a bit.
Good luck, Tom
The physical body wears out before the brain cells, as a general rule. ?ÿFocus on learning what will provide you the best options when your body starts having problems.
A currently hot technical career is power transmission line worker. ?ÿGreat pay but very hard on the body.
Welders make great money until their eyes or knees or nerves or lungs are shot. ?ÿAt 40 and 50 they are trying to find new careers.
BTW, I am both a PE and an LS. ?ÿGet that engineering degree now if you can handle the classwork. ?ÿAdd in whatever classes are available that would be useful to a surveyor. ?ÿWork weekends with a surveyor who works weekends.
I can really relate to your situation as I found myself in the same conundrum, though at 26 you hardly qualify as 'old'. I went back for my degree in my mid thirties. Better late than never. Don't over romanticize the notion of field work. In the same breath I don't think I would have been drawn to the profession without that prospect. Having a family and being gone most of the time doesn't always equate into marital bliss and eight hours a day trapped in a cubicle staring into a computer monitor day in day out?ÿis my notion of?ÿthe?ÿslowest and most agonizing suicide conceivable. Been there, done that. You're in a unique position with an opportunity to write your own ticket if you play your hand correctly. I'd encourage you to pursue the civil engineering degree and?ÿget it out of the way. Once completed it would be an easy stretch for you to pursue the geomatics angle.?ÿ Once you find yourself with the responsibilities that come in the later stages of life it will be much more difficult to make that happen. You parlay those two together and find the right niche, man o' man, you can write your own ticket. Dream big and fight like hell to get there. Life is no rehearsal. Good luck.
I started college thinking I wanted to be an electrical engineer (my father was a EE Phd). Didn't like it. Went through various other majors including law and geology, didn't really like any of them. Part of the problem was lack of motivation, I never had to pay to go to college (scholarships due to my father being a professor), so it didn't matter to me if I was dragging it out for years. I was always an outdoor type, boy scouts as a youngster and then a lot of camping and hiking as I got older.?ÿ
While I was working as a paralegal at a law firm I took an engineering technician test with the federal government and got a job as a survey tech. Loved it. So I went back for Civil Engineering, mainly because my father's CE colleagues said that survey itself was a dead end, would never make much money, etc. Went to Mexico for three semesters, got married, then back to the US, taking full time classes in CE and working summers on a survey crew for the USACE. My senior year I transferred to Purdue and took all survey courses. Graduated with a BSCE, majored in geodesy and minor in transportation.?ÿ
Once I got out (1986) I got a job at one of the first GPS survey companies, and have been doing GPS and other types of high end surveying (deformation, etc) ever since. I think the CE classes really helped me but I probably would have been better off taking more survey, but I didn't know about the survey majors at some colleges until I was almost done. The college I took most of my CE courses at (Pitt) had only a single survey class and it was a joke, taught by some old over the hill CE prof that they needed to get rid of but couldn't (tenured).?ÿ At least in Mexico I was able to take Survey I and II, much better than the class offered at Pitt.
So, I say all of the above to say this...if you think you like surveying, go for it. Take as many classes as you can. On the other hand, I know a few other people like me who got CE degrees and have been successful as surveyors (not cadastral, but engineering surveys). So if you decide to remain in Civil, take as many survey courses as you can. Get a summer job on a survey crew.?ÿ
The real shame in the CE field right now, in my opinion, is the lack of survey knowledge by Civil Engineers. Many graduate from a 4 year CE program without taking a single survey course. I believe it should be REQUIRED of all CE students, not to make them surveyors but to give them at least enough knowledge to understand surveying so that they can deal with survey data, maps, etc.?ÿ
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I would highly suggest finishing up the Civil Engineering degree, and staying an extra year or two to get the surveying degree as well. Having both will make you much more marketable, and open many more doors for you. My first surveying job was with a small engineering/surveying firm where two of the three owners were dual licensed. I learned a lot from them, and with their backgrounds, they knew what they needed in the field for design.
Their engineering coursework was more towards site design, drainage, sewers, etc. as opposed to your current track. The sky is the limit.
I agree, at 26, you are young enough to do whatever you want. I got my first LS license at 26. I am currently licensed in 5 states, and have an AAS in civil/construction engineering technology. I have a diploma in surveying and mapping. I am currently enrolled in the BAS program at Great Basin to finish up my 4 year degree.
Never turn down an opportunity to further your education and don't stop learning, ever.
Once you close the door, it will be more difficult to enter again.
The information and degree you earn will advance you in your workplace and even if you never use or rely upon the titles that come with your degree, that information will assist you in whatever direction you go in life.
0.02
If the choice was the Engineering degree or drop out I could agree with finishing the CE program. Adding 2 years of student debt for a degree that you describe as 'depressing' sounds like a bad idea.
Do what you love. Leverage it into a good life..
My .02, Tom
You will have more options with an engineering degree. You can do quite a lot of surveying with an engineering degree (plus what you can pick up later). You can't do much engineering with a survey degree. So unless you are really certain of your future path I'd stick with engineering, and squeeze as much surveying into it as you can.?ÿ ?ÿ
