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never, as a professional, work for free
dave-karoly replied 7 years, 8 months ago 27 Members · 52 Replies
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SellmanA, post: 414221, member: 8564 wrote: Usually “Point Of Curvature” as previously mentioned, although in this case it may be for “Profoundly Costly” since it was misapplied 🙂
It was a “point of curvature” pin.
The funny part of the story is no one would ever admit to laying out the foundations of the three houses that were screwed up. The builder said the surveyor laid them out. The surveyor pretty much proved he hadn’t staked out a foundation anywhere in the Township, but had staked the lots and Building Limit Line in the curve.
Most of the money the builder and surveyor lost was for the attorneys and title work for the owners of the two houses that were occupied. I think they split those expenses.
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A politically correct pin would be further left………..:p
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Bruce Small, post: 414089, member: 1201 wrote: I do surveys for churches for free, and just agreed to update one in Sahuarita not ten minutes ago. I’ve been blessed in every aspect of my life, so helping out a church seems the right thing to do. And they do appreciate it, from the wealthy to the poor.
So interesting… churches are some of the most wealthy organizations in existence.
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John Hamilton, post: 414197, member: 640 wrote: I recently became involved in Engineers without Borders, the local professional chapter is building a water supply system for a village in Ecuador. I feel like it is a worthwhile endeavor for me to volunteer to help. A local engineering firm (Michael Baker) recently donated a Leica TS15 total station and a CS15 data collector. I plan on going to Ecuador to help out with surveying in April.
Hey John, let us know what its like. I’m contemplating moving down there.
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My Father and I were doing a survey when an elderly Woman in a rickety shack next door came out and asked us to stake a line where she was having trouble with a neighbor. My Father agreed to do it and wrote out an invoice for $150.00. On the way home, he said that he really didn’t expect to be paid and he did not mind as she was obviously not very well off. About a year later, we get a call from the woman’s daughter asking if it was OK if she bought her Mother by to pay the bill. It was bugging her that she owed that bill. The irony was my Father and I had just been discussing what we were going to do with the bad debt from the Chase Manhattan Bank.
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Jim in AZ, post: 414247, member: 249 wrote: So interesting… churches are some of the most wealthy organizations in existence.
yup. and to be perfectly clear: i’ve zero beef with what anyone’s spiritual leanings are. but every church gig i’ve ever done involved- without exception- some janky title issues, some janky boundary issues, and a request for a discount (sometimes 100%). the last one was for a place that’s outgrown its 3500 seat “chapel” and is expanding- right on top of a spring we discovered while doing topo, one that should theoretically be protected but that apparently can’t stand up to the power of
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Jim in AZ, post: 414247, member: 249 wrote: churches are some of the most wealthy organizations in existence.
Some are wealthy, and some are barely able to keep the doors open.
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paden cash, post: 414014, member: 20 wrote: There is a commonality in our profession I will agree. For some reason surveyors at times seem to be poor businessmen. I was probably fifty years old before I decided to draw a hard line and demand fees that were commensurate to my firm’s services. Wished I had started earlier. Any loss of clientele (I really didn’t notice any) was minimal…if there were any, I probably didn’t need to do business with them anyway.
I also work a good amount of rural areas. There are probably six to ten “Bubbas” that live and work in those areas. Bubba doesn’t charge as much as I do, but Bubba also doesn’t have my resources nor overhead. They are all good surveyors, some of them close friends. I don’t take work from them and enjoy the reciprocal. If Bubba is your competition your enterprise may not be where you believe.
No, Bubba don’t have your knowledge. Resources and overhead are immaterial when providing a professional service. Even on the measurement alone stuff, an individual has way more overhead than a company running 3 crews. The more people you have working for you the less you have to charge.
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Duane Frymire, post: 414300, member: 110 wrote: No, Bubba don’t have your knowledge. Resources and overhead are immaterial when providing a professional service. Even on the measurement alone stuff, an individual has way more overhead than a company running 3 crews. The more people you have working for you the less you have to charge.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Variable cost (which I only just heard of a few days ago) suggests that costs for higher volume production increases disproportionately. Consider that a survey firm with multiple crews needs an HR department for example that “Bubba” simply does not. The revenue generated by the multiple crews must compensate for the cost of the HR department that “Bubba” does not. “Bubba” also does not need to have safety meetings, ongoing training, benefits packages, etc.
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Bubba who?
A dude called me Bubba once, I ignored that and never paid him any mind until he would call me by name.
It ain’t a good thing being called Bubba or Buddy continuous by someone that does respect you.
I have an entirely different person in mind when Bubba Surveyor is mentioned.
Bubba has a real job somewhere and could be a licensed surveyor too or has a licensed surveyor that signs his after hours, weekend and vacation projects.
He is content to go thru the motions and support the habit and to give the fix to keep alive the $400 survey.
Equipped with borrowed and facilitated equipment normally used by some company crew, he spills out into the public demanding backlog of projects they turn down.
For years I knew many Bubbas that brought havoc to the surveying world.
A few licensed surveyors kept a crew of rotating Bubbas busy full time.
They either did that or they would lose their real job…….thankfully, this practice is many, many decades gone now.
Most have come on board with the BOR and State Association rules and regulations leaving the numbers very few and far apart.
“vent over and out” -
Shawn Billings, post: 414302, member: 6521 wrote: I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Variable cost (which I only just heard of a few days ago) suggests that costs for higher volume production increases disproportionately. Consider that a survey firm with multiple crews needs an HR department for example that “Bubba” simply does not. The revenue generated by the multiple crews must compensate for the cost of the HR department that “Bubba” does not. “Bubba” also does not need to have safety meetings, ongoing training, benefits packages, etc.
Yes, the fact that many times “bubba” is not very wise and doesn’t learn about and follow standard safety measures, doesn’t invest in training to keep current, doesn’t put aside profits (if any) for retirement, etc. is really why “bubba” is sometimes cheaper. To do it right “bubba” has to do all these jobs themselves, and while doing one no income is being generated from another. The field equipment sits idle when researching and drafting; the computer and software sits idle when in the field or at training, etc.. The rate on these investments simply has to go up when less time is spent using them to generate income. But yeah, a company can get too top heavy as well. Some “bubba’s” do actually make a profit on their investment and a good salary, but my experience is those that do are competing based on superior service, quality, and expertise; and are likely not cheaper than a larger operation. When I started business in 1996 I spent some time with the small business administration and put together an excel spreadsheet to calculate an hourly rate with all the variables. It’s a real eye opener and I recommend it to everyone who hasn’t done it (it’s free). A lot of small operators don’t take into account all the overhead they should, such as cost of business use of home (even though they may deduct this in taxes). Basically, what I found is competing on price was out of the question, and part of that was a realization of all the investments in time and money that I would not be able to make a profit on. If you take a job for salary and invest your off time in relaxation and your money in the stock market you are much further ahead usually than a solo or nearly solo operation. I think most of us small operators have reasons other than superior monetary gain to be in business for ourselves, but still wise to know exactly what’s going on with your business.
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I don’t like working for family. The last one was a thorny thicket of ambiguous deeds and possession lines not quite matching. I researched into it enough to know to turn it down because the neighbor is automatically going to think I’m biased.
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