I would like to have opinions on the following: When monuments (ie iron pipes, iron rods etc.) are found below grade do you pull monuments up to ground level so the next time that you survey the property the irons are easier to locate. A local is doing this and I do not agree.
The only time I'll disturb and existing monument is if it's bent and I can locate with reasonable confidence its original location. In that case -- assuming I accept the monument as marking the corner -- I'll straighten it and make note of what I did. This doesn't usually change the vertical location, though.
If a monument is far enough below grade that it's not practically accessible, I'll either replace it or install another monument over it. Again, I'll file a record of what I did so that future surveyors will know what happened.
I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd move an existing monument to the surface just because it's below grade, but if I did, I'd file a record of the action.
I've never thought about it.
I can see the "disturbing evidence" argument against the practice; but ultimately the monument's purpose is to define the limits of the adjoining holdings. If it can only be found by surveyor with a metal detector, then it can not be relied upon by the owners and isn't that much of a monument in the first place.
I hate data collectors, restriction on characters. Here is a sort of common note:
"Fd 3/4"pipe top bent sw, pulled, straightened, reset flush."
Now, I hear Carlson has finally pulled out the stops, and allows alot more characters. but, disturbed mons need assistance.
IF I find a mon that is 6" dp, I leave it alone, and ADD something so the mon can be found. Like:
1/2" x 30" PVC, stuck in ground 6"
Pin flag.
Whatever is handy.
but, to pull them out, to the surface, naw, that seems invasive.
N
If it is in the same horizontal location, and noted on a recorded survey, I don't see an issue. It might cause the description to be different. For instance, I see a 15 year old survey with "Down 0.5'" and then I find it at grade, I might assume it has been disturbed, or that it is a different pin.
Not quite the same thing, but on some of our plats, after the houses get built, a rebar can be a couple of feet under the ground. I leave it, and set a new one on top. Is this a dreaded "pin cushion"? I guess, but the end product must be useable, or it doesn't matter. Oh, you want me to make a huge hole in the back yard? Not me.
> I would like to have opinions on the following: When monuments (ie iron pipes, iron rods etc.) are found below grade do you pull monuments up to ground level so the next time that you survey the property the irons are easier to locate. A local is doing this and I do not agree.
I generally leave the original monument below grade, fill in the hole, and set a new monument on top of it at the same horizontal location. On our plat it might say "R.R. spike set on top of 3/4" pipe fd buried". This of course does not vertical location, but rarely are such corners used as reliable benchmarks in my neck of the woods. If someone were to doubt me, they could always pull up the spike and find the original pipe undisturbed below grade. On occasion I have straightened bent rods/pipes, but I will never move a found, undisturbed (as far as I can tell) monument vertically or horizontally.
Yes, by setting another monument horizontally (if I disagree if the found one) I create "pin cushions". But, leaving the old one and new one both in place and both noted on our plat, shows the best evidence of the decision I made. Also, by leaving the old "incorrect" monument in place I have hopefully preserved a point in a previous surveyors coordinate file. He/she then has at least that one point to compare to mine should they return to the site.
I do not believe in pulling up another surveyors corners rather I agree with them or not.
> I would like to have opinions on the following: When monuments (ie iron pipes, iron rods etc.) are found below grade do you pull monuments up to ground level so the next time that you survey the property the irons are easier to locate. A local is doing this and I do not agree.
As so many issues it depends on the situation. A few days ago I was marking the corners and lines of a lot in a 40 year old subdivision for the client to build a fence. Because of some earth work years ago, the front corners where down about 8". Yes, I pulled them both up to flush, without changing the horizontal location. Most clients want to see the corner monuments, not just some wood lath and I do not want to leave a hole open in these peoples nice yards. So I give them what they want and see no harm in doing so.
Scott
in Florida, i believe it is illegal to move another surveyors pin. Doesn't matter if it is horizontally or vertically. What if someone used it as a bench? even if it is a foot down. What's the matter with using a shovel nowdays?
Thanks for the opinions guys, from the discussions and my original mentor, Mr. Roy Frank, I would not move the monument, but I would definitely note the depth on the plat. Once again, thanks for the insight.
> I would like to have opinions on the following: When monuments (ie iron pipes, iron rods etc.) are found below grade do you pull monuments up to ground level so the next time that you survey the property the irons are easier to locate. A local is doing this and I do not agree.
The most important reason not to raise boundary markers on residential properties to grade for me would be that the best evidence of the originality of many such markers is that they are found in native soil overlaid by either fill material from road construction or imported yard dirt. So, an old-looking marker flush in imported yard dirt looks like someone recently set an old-looking marker to deceive later surveyors into thinking it was an original stake.
I think the better practice is to set small PVC pipes beside boundary markers. They can be cut off slightly above grade to make them easy to find, or even left up a few inches. Being non-metallic, they don't hide the real marker from the metal detector and it would take an unusually inexperienced survey party to mistake it for a boundary marker.
