controlled chaos
The title of your memoirs.
I agree.?ÿ I expect there are some licensed folks making less than $50K/yr.
If i were to guess a profile, I would expect that would generally be the licensee who earned a professional license, but is very content to serve a roll of a very knowledgeable crew chief with no desire to manage multiple jobs or personnel beyond one crew.?ÿ Nothing wrong with that, but probably could have accomplished the same pay without the license (the license was just something they wanted).
An alternate profile might be the licensee who is starting his/her own business and hasn't really figured out everything that needs to be removed from that billed out number in order to know what they are really making.?ÿ I know someone who has been in business for at least a decade and he shares more than I am interested in knowing about his business.?ÿ He tells me gross billing numbers often and I'm proud of him for the work he is doing, BUT he has often been waiting on a client to pay before being able to pay to register for conference.?ÿ I'm not sure if he hasn't understood that gross billing is only a small part of the picture or if he tells gross billing to keep up appearances.
I agree, the potential is there.?ÿ Unfortunately there are still many surveyors in the boundary market who do not take advantage of the potential and instead stay in the making wages mindset.
There is no justification for not seeing most of us hiiting the largest number in that list. The root cause is however very well known. A significant percentage of us suck at business.
I can't tell how many owners I hear whining about software, vehicle and other equipment costs. They act surprised (and offended) when these costs come up, and act as though failing to charge fees to cover them is somebody elses fault.
We are the only profession that cuts clients a break or even works for free when we disciver a problem. Does your doc throw in free cancer treatment if he discovers it while treating your diabetes? Will the dentist give you free dentures when he finds you let the nagging pain go too long? Maybe the electrician installing a new outlet will put in a new 600 amp service box and run new copper at no charge when he discovers your creative fixes have caused a problem?
All that sounds ridiculous, but we do it EVERY DAY. Stop apologizing for making money. If you're not making money, get some help to figure out why.
You can't pay professional salaries while charging trade and labor rates. You can't pay anything when you give away work.. Be the professional who prepares your clients for issues AND gets paid well for fixing them
My. 02, Tom
I know of a case from a couple of years ago where I did not offer to do a specific job when requested as I was snowed under at the time but figured out what I might have told them.?ÿ Recently I learned from the firm who did the job they did it for roughly 20 percent of my number in hopes of getting substantial future work from that client, which never developed.............surprise, surprise.
If you don't bill it out, blame yourself.
When I got offered my first Land surveying opportunity as an Instrument Person( nowadays rod man) they said they'd pay me 12.50/hour(2014) and were very interested in my GIS and Geophysics background esp because I had tons of GPS experience.?ÿ I explained I wanted to get a license, that being 43, a college graduate, experienced in field operations and project management, etc, i wouldn't consider less than 15/hr.?ÿ They accepted my counter. Still grossly underpaid for the experience( outside of surveying) i hit the ground with every pin placed, control monument set, and ALTA survey performed.?ÿ I wasn't 17, and had 26 years of life lived that gave me judgement, and scope.
Cheapness is ingrained in some organizations.?ÿ They deserve the people willing to lower the professional standards of pay, esp if they don't meet the profession's needed and required experience. I had to take the the CST2 instrument/computer operator tests to keep my current job, and i was glad to do it. Doesn't make me survey any better, but allows the people keeping score to know I meet a minimum standard.?ÿ I'll take the FS in the next few months and start wrangling the references and the board to approve me as an LSIT, another step to being a full on and licensed surveyor, once I meet those requirements.
My goal to be licensed isn't to be a power monger, a know it all, ?ÿ or to make tons of money.?ÿ It's to hold myself to a higher standard, to be held to a higher standard because not everyone wants to do this type of work, has the drive to problem solve, dig holes,breath dust, get attacked by dogs, bees, angry property owners, work in and around high speed traffic and dangerous construction sites.
I will not sell my skills short, neither should anyone else. undervaluing the profession and industry only makes it easier for other professions like Law, real estate etc to build the case for why we don't need surveyors anymore, we have GPS, and a phone app. And the GIS is just as good and even better right??
?ÿ
(mic drop...)
Someone forwarded me an Indeed.com posting for a PLS.?ÿ Salary was listed as $14-17/hr with benefits.
I can't imagine going for that interview, and hoping I impress enough to get near the upper end of that salary range.
Guess I'm not moving to central Maine any time soon.?ÿ But maybe they're really really good benefits.
i know i should be used to it by now, but i'm not- it's just staggering.?ÿ guy i used to work for and still hear from every once in a while is currently looking for another license to keep up with his workload.?ÿ his indeed ad indicates 50K per year with the possibility of more depending upon experience.?ÿ part of me wants to go see him just to kick him in the kiester.?ÿ for around here that's less than HALF of what i'd even think about taking, even if it was a dream gig (and it's not- he likes to take those side-of-the-interstate, chasing asphalt rigs from dusk till dawn jobs).?ÿ and it's really about a THIRD of what any decent RPLS with a few years' experience should accept around here.?ÿ (i hate the word "should" and almost never use it, but really...)
the reality is, at least in the work i'm doing, there are plenty of people making their money: buyers, sellers, agents, lenders, architects, consultants ad nauseum.?ÿ i'm not gonna be the chump in the room walking away with a tote bag and the jason's deli tray of the sandwiches nobody wanted...
I'll give you a pair of size 13 hob nail boots for that kiester kicking....and a cellphone for instagraming it.?ÿ ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????ÿ
@jph?ÿ When I graduated from school 2017 and was job hunting I ended up doing an interview in Denver.?ÿ I had lived in Denver from 2008 to 2014 and it was expensive to live there even back in 2014.?ÿ Anyway, I had a couple years of rodman experience to go with being a degree holder so I was hoping for $20/hour.?ÿ I chatted with the guy for a bit and he commented how frustrating it was about to become finding degree holders since the legislature was about to pass a law requiring future licensees be degree holders and in light of Metro closing down its survey program.?ÿ I was thinking "Great!?ÿ Maybe this will work out in my favor...".?ÿ He then went on to describe the position and said they'd start me at $12/hour.?ÿ I couldn't tell if he was screwing with me or what, but I knew immediately it would be impossible to live there on that much money.?ÿ Hell, it was less money than I was making when I lived there 3 years earlier!?ÿ When I realized the guy was serious I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
I was in that last registered full time program at Metro state.?ÿ The pay will only increase if people refuse to be taken advantage of.
I was in that last registered full time program at Metro state.?ÿ The pay will only increase if people refuse to be taken advantage of.
Nice!
I was enrolled at Metro and taking general requirements when I got an e-mail one day saying the survey program was being suspended for 2 years to be re-accredited and to have the curriculum updated.?ÿ I thought OK that's irritating...?ÿ So I spent the next 2 years taking the rest of the general requirements and a couple low level CE classes.?ÿ After 2 years I got another e-mail from the school saying "Well, we changed our mind and we're just going to get rid of the program entirely.?ÿ If you had started taking the survey classes then you would have been allowed to finish out the program but since you haven't... good luck!".?ÿ Between how the school treated me and the interview with the low-baller I don't feel too sorry about the survey situation in Colorado.?ÿ With the the state being such a desirable place to live though I'm sure there's no shortage of help.
There was a time when Colorado, in general, was a great place to live.?ÿ Not nearly so much anymore.?ÿ?ÿ
