Missouri became a State on August 10, 1821
Arkansas became a State on June 15, 1836 (45 minutes from Joplin)
Kansas became a State on January 29, 1861 (less than 15 minutes from Joplin)
Oklahoma became a State on November 16, 1907 (less than 15 minutes from Joplin)
Survey firms based in Joplin, MO would be expected to operate in three, if not all four, on a regular basis
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Which versions of Official Survey Instructions would one need to be familiar with to survey anywhere in all four States?
Which States have French and/or Spanish Land Grants
Which States have areas using the Three-Mile Method
How similar/different are the laws that apply to land surveyors and the real estate they survey
Which States have continuing education as a condition to renew a license, how much per period and how does one prove their claims of accrued credit
Which States include hydrology, drainage etc. in the surveyor exam, if any
What are the principal meridians and baselines and where do they apply
@bill93 You make my point for me.?ÿ Either one has the knowledge to look for what is needed, and the ability and desire to do so, or they don't.?ÿ We continually hear about those people, firms, companies in a localized area that put out poor decisions for years.?ÿ Diligent and knowledgeable surveyors will take longer to complete a job in unfamiliar territory, but they will get it right.?ÿ The complained about ones will get it wrong for years without going anywhere new.?ÿ
But I'm not opposed to a State level exam for comity.?ÿ Because they exist, there also exists materials to study for them, which are an excellent source of research to learn about a new area if you choose to work there. The research would be much more time consuming if the exams didn't exist. But I've also found certain areas within your own jurisdiction can be much more challenging than crossing State lines.?ÿ
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You essentially, it seems, are arguing for deregulation? Am I understanding correctly?
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And to be clear, I believe deregulation would probably hurt the public in the short term. I doubt it would hurt good surveyors much, if at all.
Those non-local surveyors are the ones who re-establish section corners and quarter corners at the CORRECT location, which is 75 feet east and 114 feet north of the FACTUAL corner of all abutting properties.
My thoughts are that ALL tasks in the model laws from state to state are the same EXCEPT boundary. It seems a portable license works for ALL but boundary IMO.
Some of the arguments in the responses I think are valid, BUT no amount of testing will cure poor surveying practice. As stated, I am licensed in five states. Would I do boundary in all five? No, it is not possible to know everything about boundary in five states despite passing a state specific exam in each. In fact, I doubt I would be inclined to take on a boundary someplace else in my state of residence outside of a local county or so around where I have lived and worked for decades, so much changes region to region even in the same state. The only way to get competent in an area is lots of study, mentoring and actually working there. Unfortunately lots of licensed folks can't measure, let alone survey and everyone of them passed a test. If you are good, you put in the time to learn what needs to be done, if you aren't you just skate by. Practicing within your competence level is rare for most, they have a license and rubber stamp in ignorance. Even today (29 years after getting 1st licensed) if I am outside my home state in one of the other four where I am licensed, I review the applicable statutes if I am unsure on what is required for my little area of practice (control surveys).
I have seen a lot of work regarding just control over the last 30 years come through the door at various mapping firms where I worked and doing an excellent job including complete metadata is rare. A lot of firms may have the PLS on staff, BUT they in no way are doing the work, but hey it checks a box. Box checking is easy for BOR's to enforce, BUT evaluating for competence seems much more difficult.
I don't know. Just because you pass the test, does not mean you have a clue about local boundary situations. Being registered in a state not contiguous to where you live, has me forming opinions about you and how you survey. Out of towners come in to survey our larger commercial sites (since us hics don't know anything), screw everything up, make us to take the blame (stupid local surveyors) and leave the clean up to the locals. Even the municipalities allow them to over-plat right-of-ways and neighboring property, and shrug it off, since they are no longer here. If we did that, they would clean out clock, report us to the board and make us pay to fix it.?ÿ
I think if you want a license in a different state, you need to work there a while, until you know what the heck you are doing.?ÿ
I think if you want a license in a different state, you need to work there a while, until you know what the heck you are doing.?ÿ
I certainly think that is valid at least for boundary work.
Maybe a two tier licensing scheme is warranted. One for everything but boundary and boundary ONLY.
My understanding is Texas has two classes of surveyor licenses; Registered Professional Land Surveyor (RPLS) and Licensed State Land Surveyor (LSLS). I don't know the particulars, BUT obviously they can do different tasks and maybe that is a valid model?
SHG
@holy-cow?ÿ ?ÿ Which is why the GLO Manuel is no longer referenced in Florida Surveying Standards of Practice. Any duface can prorate two intersecting lines without reviewing a single deed, tie associated references, review anecdotal material;?ÿ and poke out his chest and say how he surveys 'by the book'.
@dmyhill you did misunderstand. I'm not for deregulation, I'm for smart regulation.
@holy-cow And sometimes it's the local.?ÿ Sometimes lack of knowledge, sometimes lack of caring, sometimes economical duress due to poor business practices.?ÿ We could regulate that the landowners do it themselves; after all nobody is localer than they. How could they ever get it wrong if they walk it together?
I agree with Duane.
My thoughts are that ALL tasks in the model laws from state to state are the same EXCEPT boundary. It seems a portable license works for ALL but boundary IMO.
Agree one thousand percent.
Unfortunately lots of licensed folks can't measure, let alone survey and everyone of them passed a test. If you are good, you put in the time to learn what needs to be done, if you aren't you just skate by.
Yep. This is why more rigorous requirements for education, training and testing should be implemented. And the boundary portion needs to be a separate endorsement that one cannot sit for unless they go through the foundational (portable) licensing process. Perhaps add a few other higher-level endorsements...
If someone can't competently measure, they can't competently measure a boundary. It's either that or split out the licenses so that whoever evaluates the boundary is removed from the measurement process.
I have seen a lot of work regarding just control over the last 30 years come through the door at various mapping firms where I worked and doing an excellent job including complete metadata is rare. A lot of firms may have the PLS on staff, BUT they in no way are doing the work, but hey it checks a box. Box checking is easy for BOR's to enforce, BUT evaluating for competence seems much more difficult.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of those licensees doing the work, but doing it incorrectly, because they can't measure competently. But because they passed that entry level test and are "in charge" they don't get challenged when they screw something up.
