In an earlier post (link), the discussion and poll concerned a licensed employee.?ÿ Larry Best noted that it seemed odd to see no respondents in the lower salary range.
Larry's comment reminded me of a poll that was taken at the Kentucky Assoc. of Professional Surveyors annual conference this past February.?ÿ One of the questions involved the expected starting salary of a non-licensed, entry level employee in the company they were at.?ÿ Almost half (43%) of respondents indicated a salary of 25K-30K/yr would be offered.
Although entry level was not defined and expectations could vary a good bit, I was still surprised that the majority of responses were that low.?ÿ That is just $14.50 an hour on the high end.?ÿ I've seen signs on billboards for a a company that manufactures windows which offered similar starting pay and very good benefits.?ÿ The starting salary (surveying) I was offered in 1994 would be worth about $22 today if inflation adjusted.
While pay rate is not the only concern someone should have when looking for a position, it sure seems like a hard sell to convince someone to be out in all kinds of weather, ticks, snakes, briars, etc when there are alternatives with similar pay rates (and often better benefits).
I agree. Minimum wage in some states is approaching that.?ÿ?ÿ
And in some areas prep cooks and kitchen help are making more.?ÿ Not necessarily just in the big towns either.?ÿ?ÿ
I keep saying it, I love surveying, but if I had a do over, I'd be a plumber or electrician instead.?ÿ
You don't hear of people calling up the electrician who did some wiring for the prior owner expecting them to fix anything for free.?ÿ
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Wages paid tie to income from completed work.?ÿ If the work is being charged out at silly low rates then it follows the workers will be getting paid at silly low rates.?ÿ Sure there are owners who feel they are the only ones deserving of making real money, but, many of those go out of business eventually.
You get what you pay for!
I wrote an opinion piece for our associations newsletter regarding this, as well as the respect that "technicians" deserve and is sorely lacking in the profession. I have attached for anyone interested.
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First, I must say you provided a very well-written and thought out message.?ÿ Let's hope it has some positive effects.
Second, thank you for providing the entire issue.?ÿ I really enjoy getting a chance to see how things are done in different places while we all try to move forward doing very similar things.?ÿ The stories were quite interesting.
Around here you??re looking at fast food joints (Taco Bell included) offering $12-14/hr. So that??s a minimum jumping off point. I reckon the sell is what it??s always been anyways- you have to like the job. I??ve told every greenhorn I??ve employed: there are plenty of gigs where you can mail it in and get by for a while. This isn??t one of them. If you don??t like the work, might as well own it and go on to something else, no feelings hurt.
strikes me that ??natural? surveyors are both pretty easy to spot early and also realize it themselves. Conversely the ones who??ve been ??meh? at best wash out pretty quick. The cost of business doesn??t suffer much as a consequence.
Fixed. Another aspect of the higher pay scale argument would be that offering more money really only attracts people who are looking for more money.
I agree with the observation that you have to like the survey job to be a surveyor. No use in getting out in all sorts of weather and environment if you don't like the job. Or there is another 9-5 job where you can spend it indoors with air conditioning offering the same pay.
You get to know the ones that will last long in this type of job within the 1st week if not days. I would guess it's like the coal miners or high rise construction workers. It's in their blood. And by blood I don't mean you can transfuse someone's else blood into their veins.
@paul-d Very good article.
I particularly liked?ÿ "..confidence in their ability to perform as professionals, while not being a licensed professional, is key to responsibly being in responsible charge."
A few comments:
- entry level starting wage is less of an issue than what the wage might be after 3, 6, 12 months and so on. At true entry level, some might argue that the employee should be paying the employer for the training! Indeed, if you called your business a school of surveying, and your employees "interns", that is exactly what they would be doing!
- Any attempt to relate entry level wages and "living wage" is nonsense. No one should be trying to live on entry level wages. After a year or two of experience, one might support themselves. I'd think a person would have to be 4 or 5 years into a career before they think of supporting a family. Of course that won't stop people from trying it. But that is not the professions fault.?ÿ
- The fact that wage growth has stalled in our profession is not news. It's happening in almost all "mature" lines of work. It was a big issue in the 2016 election.
- Wages in dollar terms are one thing, the cost of benefits, particularly medical, has increased greatly. So when you compare 1994 entry level with 2020 be sure you are comparing the whole package.?ÿ
- I'm in agreement that wages and benefits must rise to attract people. There is a demand. If sustained, inevitably there will be upward pressure on wages. If sustained.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
- in baseball they draft high schoolers and pay them $20k a year to live and work in places far away from their homes. After maybe 5 years, if they are exceptionally good, they may rise to Triple A and $50k/year. A large majority never make it that far, let alone the majors and the big money. But that big money carrot keeps plenty of people willing to go through the struggle. Similar stories in other sports and in the entertainment industry. My point being that if you want to encourage the?ÿ entry level, there needs to be a carrot for those that stick it out and get to the top as much as, an more than, there needs to be sugar at the bottom?ÿ
The benefit package can make or break the circumstances, especially if the medical insurance is fully paid for the family and is a good plan.?ÿ For certain families that can be worth more in real dollars than the wages.
Once upon I time I worked for a company where our medical insurance was fully paid by the company and would be a family plan if the employee had a family or a single plan so long as the employee was single.?ÿ My youngest daughter was born during the time I was employed by them.?ÿ My total out of pocket for everything from the wife's first meeting with the doctor through the entire pregnancy, delivery and hospital stay was something like $80.?ÿ I will admit I was one of the higher paid employees but the lowest paid employee out of 1400 had the same level of insurance as a benefit.
great article. very much like the idea of recognizing non-licensed folks for their contribution.
One thing I have found to be unfortunate (or disgusting depending on your point of view) is that some continuing education providers charge far more to non-members than members, yet deny the paraprofessionals/technicians the ability to become members.?ÿ Thus, those who are seeking the most information/education sometimes pay as much as double the standard fee while earning wages significantly inferior to those who get the price break.?ÿ Then the providers wonder why newly-licensed surveyors may turn their back on the organization that has ignored them for so long.
