@va-ls-2867 do you know if they offer any good training packages in the Deep South?
@dave-lindell yes I am talking net but my goals are more time with my family and more time out of the office so frozen north I don??t plan on being the guy that makes $200k a year but i wanted to make sure it??s not something that people are averaging only $50k or $60k a year. I didn??t think they were but some places online said that and I wanted to check with real guys that know the real world.
@holy-cow why do you think he needs to buy the equipment? I know he doesn??t want to operate it so I doubt he would be willing to buy it but I??m interested in why he would need to own it. I am learning about business but maybe this is one of those things I need to have a business to understand.
This will be his business for at least the next five or six years and you have your license.?ÿ Then you inherit or buy out the firm.?ÿ This is a business write-off.?ÿ You don't have that luxury at this time.?ÿ Few successful survey businesses purchase gear for the owner to use every day with the exception of completely solo operators.?ÿ As the owner of the business you normally have too many other items of business to conduct to be able to fully utilize the high-dollar field gear.?ÿ If you can get him to spring for the appropriate gear, you will need to prove to him that you can use it to make his business more profitable.?ÿ That will work to your advantage in the long run.
Better build quality and first to introduce new features. Generally better network of dealers / service. You may pay a bit more up front but you are likely to get more years of trouble free service out of them. For example, there is a little adjustment routine you must perform from time to time called "collimation" to keep them reading angles to their rated precision. I've found that with Trimble and Leica you do that once and they keep performing to spec for months. With Topcon you need to do it every few days.?ÿ?ÿ
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Jump in. ?ÿGo for it. ?ÿMake your mistakes. ?ÿLearn from them. ?ÿSomeone here recently said that one of the privileges of being alive is making mistakes.
2 - Is there a brand that stands out above the rest that has all the equipment I need, has great training/customer support, and is easy to learn for somebody new?
I do not work as a surveyor, but am an older surveying student. Have you considered taking a surveying class at a local college? In my classes, at least half of it was hands on (a lab). It's a good opportunity to learn how to use the equipment.?ÿ Some of it is not the most modern, so you have to deal with problems that "have been solved by modern equipment / modern infrastructure" , but you get an understanding of how the equipment works. This would require flexibility in your current job to take time off for a class.?ÿ
Also I really enjoyed my boundary surveying class. Very interesting as I also like history. So many topics that I knew nothing about or had never even thought about it. This one you could take possibly online, as there is a lot to learn that does not require a lab.?ÿ
Lastly, you do not mention benefits (and cost of it). Perhaps you have a spouse that has that covered. I assume as a municipal employee you have very good benefits.?ÿ
Best of luck to you. I hope it works out.?ÿ
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It is not a stretch to make $100,000 at all, that is a fairly modest salary for an experienced surveyor. The average salaries you see on the internet usually classify technicians as "surveyors", throwing of the numbers.
The problem is that making that much in the rural South doing boundaries with a fresh license may be harder. It will take quite a bit of legal knowledge. Where will you get that in 5 years??ÿ
How much does the surveyor you plan to work with make? If he is making well over what your initial goal is, you have a good chance. If he is not, do you you have a plan to make changes that will allow you to increase your income??ÿ
Bringing in $100,000 is attainable, even in low income areas.?ÿ But, every client must actually pay the full invoice in a reasonable amount of time.?ÿ There are times when a second person is VERY worthwhile to make the job much easier.?ÿ ?ÿ Consider what your current benefit package will cost you out-of-pocket?ÿ (after all withholding is applied to leave what is in your pocket).?ÿ Had a good friend whose wife was a school teacher and their insurance was primarily paid by her employer.?ÿ Her job went away.?ÿ The first year their out-of-pocket for health insurance was over $24,000.
@frozennorth that 2.5 to 2.7% multiplier does not go strictly to payroll, included in that are office space expenses, utilities, supplies, computers & software, non billable employees, benefits, work trucks, insurances, equipment and more.?ÿ Any company having more than one crew and dedicated drafters will have a multiplier above 2.7%.?ÿ Don't confuse billable rates with income, as incomes rise, so does overhead and the multiplier increases to reflect those costs.
@jhickman there are allot of answers to your questions that can get quite complicated.?ÿ A few of my own employees own their own equipment and have offered to use it when the company equipment was in for repairs or routine service.?ÿ I always decline their offer as I don't know what shape it is in and who knows how to properly use it.?ÿ Add to that, the company insurance would not pay for it if it would be damaged or stolen and a slew of other reasons.
It is the company's responsibility to buy and maintain any needed equipment.?ÿ If the company does not want to invest in current technology and software, they will not be around long.
I will add my two pennies here as a PLS.?ÿ It is a given that you are a PE, in most cases, that will lighten the load of course work you will need to take to get a degree in surveying.
The expectations of making $100K working a 40 hour week are not inline with the market will bare.?ÿ You have to learn to crawl before you can walk.?ÿ It took me years as a PLS before I made $100K and the expectation of making that kind of income and working only five eight hour days a week will not come to fruition.
I want to drive home the fact that it will take you a few years alone just to become proficient in the operation of your equipment, it's software routines and when to use them for the appropriate field application.?ÿ Also keep in mind that your potential partner is running antique CAD platform that will not handle current methods without dumbing down the data.?ÿ You are talking about buying a modern robot, DC, software and GPS.?ÿ Are you going to go VRS RTK or a base and rover set up??ÿ You are already in for $50K to $75K right there.
Who is going to process the data you collect??ÿ Is the office hardware going to be able to do that effectively and efficiently??ÿ Who has the experience in working with datums and datum conversion, adjustments calculations to sent to the field in a compatible modern format??ÿ My assumption is that if the CAD platform is out dated and unsupported, the office computers probably are too.
Your biggest hurdle is becoming an actual surveyor, having a degree and a wall plaque saying that you are one does not, in reality, make you one.?ÿ It takes years to gain the knowledge and experience required to be in responsible charge of the work that your signature will appear on. Five years is not going to get you that experience, I would say it will take double that time frame.
As it relates to running a business, that's not something that you just jump into.?ÿ You will be responsible, as a business owner, to make sure your employees are paid when things are slow, often meaning that you don't get paid.?ÿ You will be responsible to provide company benefits, health insurances, understand labor laws, develop your employees professionally, handle billing and accounts receivable.?ÿ There's too much more to even try to explain.
As it relates to small town politics, as either a PE or a PLS in private practice, you will never escape them if you are doing anything more than title surveys. They are just a fact of the environment we work in as professionals.
My very first day surveying was in 1983, I loved it with a passion, had great mentors and lived, ate and breathed it.?ÿ In 1987, I got married, that's about the time that I started gathering study information.?ÿ I studied non stop, every text that I could from 1989 to 1993, both before and after work and got licensed in 1993.?ÿ Form that point, it took me into management where I had to learn all of the business aspects while running crews and going to Planning and Zoning Board meetings at night, often not getting home until midnight and on salary.
You have allot to consider but I would say, truly with all due respect, your expectations are sky high.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ
Why didn't this guy find an experienced surveyor or technician??ÿ is this a family friend or something??ÿ It seems strange that he wants someone without experience to take over his surveying "department" (I put it in quotes because I'm not sure the extent of it) for him.?ÿ
I am just making this part up from my own experiences in life and in the industry but, I can imagine that he tried to hire someone, everyone he interviewed costs too much, so he is trying someone without experience he can work hard for little money (compared to others he has interviewed.)?ÿ I might be way off.?ÿ
It may be worth it to take a position at a reputable surveying firm, that will give you the training, benefits, fancy equipment (or at least the equipment you need to do a good, efficient job.)?ÿ Surveying is a great field, the concern is with the specific job you are speaking of.
There is a lot of knowledge and experience required for boundary surveying and a lot of nuance in measuring and all fields of land surveying that come with education (self-education or college) and experience.?ÿ You plan to learn all that while being responsible for a department, dealing with homeowners, clients, construction managers, or whoever, while worrying about budgets, proposals, etc.?ÿ It sounds like it could be a lot of responsibility.?ÿ
Don't underestimate how much goes into being a GOOD surveyor AND a good manager.?ÿ Many engineers think that surveying is just about mathematics; it is not.?ÿ Again, I don't know this guy, some PELS's are great surveyors.?ÿ Some just take it as a side gig to make a buck and don't really care about the quality or integrity of what they are doing.
As for equipment, if you plan to go through with this, learn the way he does things with the equipment he uses.?ÿ It is working for him, whatever it is, so it can be done that way.?ÿ If he wants to upgrade you just gotta do a lot of research.?ÿ?ÿ A lot has to do with the type of work you are doing.?ÿ Do you have to carry a lot, are you taking a lot of topo shots, traversing long distances through the woods, doing high accuracy stakeout??ÿ The equipment, how much you spend on it, has to do with many factors.?ÿ
If I were traversing long distances in the woods, I might want a Nikon or something that doesn't weigh much.?ÿ Robotic instruments are not always necessary for a 1-man operation.?ÿ It depends on what you are doing, and how many topo shots you're really picking up. ?ÿ I think someone on this forum just mentioned how he went out with nothing but a metal locator and a tape the other day.?ÿ It depends on what you are doing.
Regardless, start researching, start learning.?ÿ Try to enroll in an online certificate or associate's degree in land surveying.?ÿ Especially if you're going to be working by yourself, you aren't going to get much hands-on mentorship it sounds like.?ÿ Pick up books.?ÿ Ghillania and Wolf - elementary land surveying is a good start.?ÿ If you're going to be involved in any type of boundary work then pick up Brown's boundary control, and legal principles, and Brown's evidence and procedures for boundary location, and download the 2009 BLM manual especially if in a PLSS state (BLM manual is still a good read if you're working in any state in my opinion.)?ÿ That is just the start, I probably have 15+ books just on the subject of boundary surveying and legal principles associated with property boundary location.
Good luck
If I were traversing long distances in the woods, I might want a Nikon or something that doesn't weigh much.?ÿ Robotic instruments are not always necessary for a 1-man operation.?ÿ
Look up Jed's videos on this forum for amazing solo work in rough terrain and dense woods.
Ghillania and Wolf - elementary land surveying is a good start.?ÿ
Excellent introduction and intermediate study material.?ÿ If you are going to be retracing old boundaries, also pick up a 1960's textbook to get a better appreciation for the work you will be following.
Brown's boundary control, and legal principles, and Brown's evidence and procedures for boundary location
Get an older edition.?ÿ They're cheaper and some people have said they are better general study material than later editions that are perhaps better as references.
@mark-mayer I wanted to thank you for your comment. I was very heavily looking into this but your statement about really loving surveying caught my attention. Though I think i would like it more than my current job I don't think I would say I love it. It just seemed like a good option. When I got to thinking about this though I decided it's probably not a good idea to change jobs unless it's something I think I would love. thanks.
