I believe KY no longer has a state specific exam
Somebody with a better memory than me can correct me but Kentucky quit administering the state specific exam about 5 years ago after a Licensure Board for dental hygienist in New Jersey or maybe North Carolina (a two word state anyway) got in trouble for some perceived slight and the court decision was detrimental to the Licensure Board. The decision of the Kentucky Board because of that court decision was that we could no longer offer the state specific exam. It was a weird court thing, nothing that really made any sense to me at the time and even less now as I am trying to recall the details.
At no point does the 2-year degree language indicate that those "2 years of unsupervised experience" may not be concurrently acquired while at university.
Arguably, 2 years of degree oriented study is "progressive experience".
It is the internet, so you can argue any point you want to. But, the two year degree will only count as the two year degree portion of a "two year degree and six years of experience". There will still be six years of experience required.
I missed the part where anyone suggested two years of experience could not be gained while at college. They could - IF the two years of experience was gained while working full time in surveying while taking the the two year degree. But the two year degree only counts as the two year degree part.
Isn't boundary work required to be done by or under direct supervision of a licensed surveyor? If so, it can only mean one thing. But I agree, would be better to make it clear in the bill.
I agree that it should be taken as only one meaning, but it is too easy for people to try to achieve a different meaning if something is not specifically stated. With the deed plot over aerial folks and "find the corners" companies, there are enough people who try getting into the boundary area with some twisting of language. So clarity on that point would seem to be better.
Our board does allow some time for such surveying as engineering surveys or construction. I don't know how much time they do allow, but it seems there used to be up to a year that could be counted that way.
@tom-bushelman I don't recall the state and the specifics of the case that prompted the decision, but it turned our that the way the testing requirement in Kentucky was written, it called for testing as administered through NCEES. Since the state specific was administered through KYBEOLS, the board counsel believed it could easily be challenged as not fitting within the language of the law. So, since that was rarely the sticking point for any applicants, the board decided it would be easier to drop the testing requirement instead of changing the language to allow for state administered examination for the state portion.
I believe if you are an existing PLS in another state and have your NCEES Record, Kentucky will award you theirs after application. You don't have to take their state specific exam.
Do they not require that you meet the requirements in place in Kentucky at the time of your initial license being issued? I thought that used to be part of the reciprocity application.
I wasn't overly interested in your "counsel" comment until I reviewed this link I saw that you posted on another recent thread:
https://www.nysapls.org/general/custom.asp?page=EthicProcedures
I read the NYSAPLS complaint section.
Not at liberty to discuss details on a public chat board.
What legal authority does NYSAPLS have to bring a criminal suit against a licensed professional in the state of New York that would require "counsel" and preclude any discussion?
That is the realm of the State.
If NYSAPLS wants to extort membership fees for some perceived value implied toward their membership and then later shakedown those same members, I guess that's the New York way.
I've seen many similar instances of "associations" and their "members" quite proud of this type of behavior and their power hungry pursuits.
But let's look at the numbers of surveyors joining the profession. Most associations aren't helping things. Their antiquated ideas are actually hurting everyone they claim to represent. 3rd party organizations that claim to represent another's interest is just racketeering, and seems to be exceptionally strong in the surveying field.
Great example: the Kentucky Licensing Bill thread within the last couple of days.
That state was looking to address avenues to expand the ability to get licensed, which is good for the profession.
And the Kentucky Surveyors shut it down.
Twice.
What are all these associations going to do when there are no surveyors left to join their little clubs?
I have served as a lobbyist for several years. While there is some truth to the idea the few control the many, it is possible to get things done if you put in the work.
Every society should have a lobbyist building relationships with legislators, especially the committee chairs who hear bills on our key subjects. In a perfect world the lobbyist would be a subject matter expert rather than an attorney. A semiretired PLS is ideal.
Nearly every State has a public portal where you can track legislation. When something comes out of left field it's nice to call the chair and let them know you weren't invited to the table. Many will hold the bill until the sponsor sits with you and hammers things out. It is nearly a universal truth chairs HATE controversy.
I've dabbled in politics for about thirty years now. It is the most exasperating fun a guy can have...
Ramble off...
I believe if you are an existing PLS in another state and have your NCEES Record, Kentucky will award you theirs after application. You don't have to take their state specific exam.
Do they not require that you meet the requirements in place in Kentucky at the time of your initial license being issued? I thought that used to be part of the reciprocity application.
That is correct sir. I was more focused on the non-examination part and did not mention that caveat.
https://kyboels.ky.gov/Getting-Licensed/Pages/Getting-Your-Individual-License.aspx
@michigan-left I'm simply sharing information with parties that might be interested. You can make what you want of it. Seems you have a grievance about associations. Why don't you start a thread to discuss them? Maybe you can teach us all how it should work?
It's been part of my responsibilities to help consumers when they have complaints. I don't make judgements but only counsel how to access the system. The link shows two methods, one through the association and one through the State board.
No big conspiracy going on. There are methods for consumer complaints in all professions and trades that I'm aware of. Some through State agencies some through associations. But often the public doesn't know how to access them.
If you want to discuss inner workings of NYSAPLS just give them a call. Me just a pawn in game of life.
Like grains of sand through the hours glass...these are the days of our lives.
@jflamm Thanks for the clarification. Changes can happen so quickly its hard to keep up with all of them, so I wasn't sure if that went away as well.
Every society should have a lobbyist building relationships with legislators, especially the committee chairs who hear bills on our key subjects.
That is one of the bigger decisions that was made by our society that I really disagree with - no longer retaining a lobbyist.
I find the idea of lobbyists somewhat repugnant
Employing one, even more so
Democracy - the best government money can buy
Great example: the Kentucky Licensing Bill thread within the last couple of days.
That state was looking to address avenues to expand the ability to get licensed, which is good for the profession.
And the Kentucky Surveyors shut it down.
Twice.
The state was not looking to address anything. The state (legislators) would not have been involved at all, as they weren't manufacturing a problem to solve, except for being deceptively dragged into it by false claims. A disgruntled engineering firm owner (PE) who wasn't happy with either a time frame to get an ALTA done or his ability to hire a PLS (not sure which as I've heard both versions) initiated the bill through his influence with one representative. The timing should not have been a surprise to an engineering business owner as we are in an uncharacteristic boom time where people are even waiting on ---- engineers. I have asked for and am yet to receive any study to support the claims that the bill would have increased the number of licensees. As there is currently no 2-year program within the state to create these new licensees, I doubt it would have accomplished much (for a while at the very least).
The latest board of licensure numbers indicate that this year, we will have the same number of testing applicants as pre- four year degree requirement but with a better than double passing rate. Meaning there will actually be more licenses issued. So, the over a years of research that went into the original language to create the existing 4-year degree requirement is doing exactly what was predicted and what it was partially intended to do - increasing the number of licensees by having testing applicants who are better prepared for the exam portion.
KAPS members and leadership struggled with this decision during the initial implementation of a 4-year degree requirement and have had many serious discussions about the most recent attempts at changing the requirements. These are real-world difficult decisions being made by people who are actively working to better the profession, not a bunch of armchair quarterbacks grumbling on the internet. I doubt a single person in KAPS is unwilling to discuss changes as needed, if thoroughly researched, but it is utter foolishness to abandon an already implemented plan exactly when it was predicted to come to fruition AND is actually accomplishing what some new scheme (which hasn't even been researched) proposes to do.
@jimcox The vast majority of lobbyists are decent people trying to see good policy become law. This is especially true at the State level.
In 30 plus years I've never done a favor, made a donation, or pulled any of the crap that people with zero knowledge of what a lobbyist does think happens.
A lobbyist for a State society needs to be a subject matter expert who can help policy makers understand the reality of our profession. If we really needed to palm cash to get that done there would be no surveying laws.
