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Robot calibration

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(@cf-67)
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As John Putnam noted, you can shoot steeply down as well as up, and I don't think a minimum distance is mentioned. I've heard of people putting a dime on the ground a few metres away and shooting some fine detail on it.

I've also wondered if there is any problem (for a steep uphill sight) of using a diagonal eyepiece to ease the contortions? You are still using the same crosshairs so I would think it was still valid.

 
Posted : June 19, 2022 12:33 pm
(@martin_au)
Posts: 95
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Leica says >20m for the tilting axis.?ÿ
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1485224/Leica-Ts13.html?page=53#manual
Though I suspect using minuscule targets and ensuring good repeatability mean thatƒ??s a fairly loose requirement.

 
Posted : June 19, 2022 1:30 pm
(@lurker)
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The trunnion axis collimation is just adjusting for how far off horizontal the gun turns when looking high or low from 90 degrees. The only requirement for distance is the quality of sighting a target. You can be set up anywhere and effectively do the trunnion axis collimation as long as you are precise in your sighting of a target. Like others have said, something on the ground works just as well as setting up near a building and sighting high.

If you do not sight things with a high or low zenith angle then not doing this collimation will have minimal effect on the angles you collect.

 
Posted : June 20, 2022 5:02 am
john-putnam
(@john-putnam)
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@martin_au?ÿ

The targets I'm using are usually smaller that the cross hairs.?ÿ At 20 m out you need ~ 10 m difference in height which can be done on a 2 story building if you can find well defined targets.

 
Posted : June 20, 2022 6:36 am
(@ramses)
Posts: 126
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Posted by: @lukenz

I'm running a 2" Geomax Zoom90 (basically a Lecia TS15/TS13) and of course the dealer says it should be sent back for calibration/service once a year. I've worked for places that do just that and places that only send the gun into the dealer if it gets dropped.

?ÿ

I'm the only user who baby's it and lucky if it get a full day of work a week. My question is do they really need to go back each year??ÿ Particularly interested in other Lecia/Geomax users experience.

?ÿ

Also for Lecia/Geomax users how often do you go though the check and adjust routine??ÿ Also where do you find something tall enough to point at for vertical angle?

?ÿ

I've always put it off thinking the dealer calibration ought to be the best and if my pointing is not perfect with the check and adjust routine then I could put it out more? Typical my left/right face horizontal angles are within a couple seconds but the vertical split is often ~8" which always seems to have been that way.

Id take it back only if the field calibration shows angular differences of more than 15" between 2 calibrations. My 1" zoom 90 didn't see the dealer since we purchased it and it still works well after 5 years giving us consistent results.

 
Posted : June 24, 2022 2:09 am

(@ramses)
Posts: 126
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Posted by: @350rocketmike

@john-putnam?ÿ

The Leica 1203+ is still harassing me because I did all the adjustments except tilting axis because I'm never set up anywhere it can be done. I have to specifically search out something I can sight.?ÿ

The Trimble routine definitely takes less time because of this not being part of it, but maybe doesn't accomplish as much.?ÿ

Seems like Trimble s series in general don't value accuracy as much as Leica, since they build a robot that's basically useless without the active prism which is inherently less accurate to begin with.?ÿ

I do the tilting axis this way: try to find a tiny piece of quartz, or other dot small enough that you can center?ÿ the cross hair on, about 5'-6' away from the instrument. Focus and center on it and press the button. It works pretty well. I had to transfer control on tall structures at around 30 deg angle?ÿ so I needed to figure out a way to calibrate the tilting axis beforehand.

 
Posted : June 25, 2022 4:10 am
(@350rocketmike)
Posts: 1212
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Posted by: @ramses
Posted by: @350rocketmike

@john-putnam?ÿ

The Leica 1203+ is still harassing me because I did all the adjustments except tilting axis because I'm never set up anywhere it can be done. I have to specifically search out something I can sight.?ÿ

The Trimble routine definitely takes less time because of this not being part of it, but maybe doesn't accomplish as much.?ÿ

Seems like Trimble s series in general don't value accuracy as much as Leica, since they build a robot that's basically useless without the active prism which is inherently less accurate to begin with.?ÿ

I do the tilting axis this way: try to find a tiny piece of quartz, or other dot small enough that you can center?ÿ the cross hair on, about 5'-6' away from the instrument. Focus and center on it and press the button. It works pretty well. I had to transfer control on tall structures at around 30 deg angle?ÿ so I needed to figure out a way to calibrate the tilting axis beforehand.

That sounds like a great solution for me. I find small quartz rock lying around quite often in some areas around here. I should know this but what robot are you doing this with? I still have both the Trimble s5 and Leica 1203+ in the truck. Trying to switch over to permanently using the s5 because our company is switching over to all Trimble (no idea why?) But the Leica is definitely still the better robot. The only upside to the Trimble is using it with the r10-1 on VRS network, not having to transfer coordinates into a different data collector.

Edit: sorry I see your using a zoom 90. I wish I had asked my boss for one of those. Would have been a slight upgrade from the TCRP1203+ and worked well with Fieldgenius and the Panasonic tablet.?ÿ

 
Posted : June 25, 2022 4:19 am
(@lukenz)
Posts: 525
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Rather pleased with all the helpful responses. Great to hear what everyone else is doing so to all who chipped in thanks a bunch. Gives me as a solo operation (and more at the perfectionist end of spectrum) some comfort about my current approach!

 
Posted : June 25, 2022 4:39 am
(@lukenz)
Posts: 525
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Topic starter
 

Just a follow up on this topic as been thinking about it further.

 

With the short range high vertical angle collimation check at 5-10m, even with shooting something of hair like thickness, how does that extrapolate out to observation distances of 100m+? 

 

Does anyone bother to find something tall/low enough to be over 27° at ~100m and does it improve the result?

 

Also I see Leica recommend a minimum of three sets, has anyone bothered doing more and if so did it help much?

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 3:57 am
john-putnam
(@john-putnam)
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At 100m meters you would need over 45m of stable height difference and I've never found anything that would fit the bill. 

As for the number of sets, I usually do the recommended 3.  The instrument shows you the statistics as you go.  With three I'm usually at zero so I'm guessing more really won't help much.  On the rare occasion when I have had a bad sighting that affect the results, I will add another set to replace the offending measurement.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 7:26 am

(@landbutcher464mhz)
Posts: 40
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So reading this post reminded me that it was time to check the calibration on my trusty Leica TS15-P. L & T = 1"   i = 0"   c = 1"   ATR = 0". Damned hot for a well used 2012 model using a Leica GPR-121 prism.

Previously I did the tilting axis check using a tall HS stadium light pole about 50 feet away. This time I put a hand tape on the ground about 7 feet away to get the vertical up to 120 degrees and used a small 1/16th mark on the tape. The previous error was 12" and this time I got the same 12". It appears that you do not have to bust your neck looking up at a target far away. Looking down at a close well defined target worked just fine for me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 4:18 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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Posted by: @landbutcher464mhz

..it was time to check the calibration on my trusty Leica TS15...

My experience with Leicas and Trimbles is that they hold their collimation pretty much forever. My experience with Topcon is that they need collimation almost daily.

 
Posted : December 15, 2024 12:38 pm
(@lukenz)
Posts: 525
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As I don't have much of a reference what are the typical adjustment values you expect to see?  I know you will get some variation instrument to instrument but curious if I'm in the ballpark given the changes were not insignificant.

IMG20250107074854
IMG20250107074913

Also:

1) Does anyone know if those values are decimal degrees or DMS?  I'm assuming DD with the format shown?

2) When sighting the 'horizontal' prism you need to aim for centre of prism vertically and horizontally but when doing the +/-27° sighting vertical repeatability of sighting is clearly important but is the horizontal pointing as important?  Easy enough to get the vertical top of a building corner but not always as clear getting the horizontal pointing.

 

 
Posted : January 6, 2025 7:53 pm
(@lurker)
Posts: 954
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Yes the horizontal is most important. You are determining how much your telescope angles off left or right as it rotates up and down. If it were perfect you would be sighting the same horizontal angle at +27 degrees as you were at 0 degrees. But it isn't perfect and you are determining the drift as you raise or lower the scope.

Do an obviously bad direct and reverse pointing to see if the values display above .0059. If you can get .0085 then you know it is decimal degrees. I'm not sure about your instrument but our instruments display this value in dms. The 11 seconds you see is not enough to be out of the expected values but I think you would typically see slightly lower values.

 
Posted : January 6, 2025 10:09 pm
(@lukenz)
Posts: 525
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@lurker 

The values must be DD not DMS as when observing the angles noted they could be above .5959

 

Went back and had another couple of runs pointing the high angle accurately in both hz & v this time. Slight improvement in values but mostly just not jumping so much between calibration routines.

 

Thanks for the pointers!

 
Posted : January 9, 2025 4:41 am

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