Turning down work but retaining client
Looking for some advice for how to turn down certain projects from clients but retain them as clients long term. I am going fully solo for a while and I will be turning down jobs that I know I just won’t be able to do myself. I have tried raising rates but sometimes I still get the job.
Any thoughts?
- 19 Replies
I am going fully solo for a while
What are you doing now? Owner, employee, solo?
@flga-2-2 Owner. Latest employee is leaving after only a few months and I just don’t want to spend the same amount of time training anyone again so need to cut back on workload.
Simply tell them the truth. Explain you want to do work for them but at this time you probably would not get there within the timeframe that is critical to them. Recommend a couple of other surveyors that the caller could contact to see what their schedule is at this time. Be the client’s best friend.
@totalsurv well it is so difficult to retain people if you can even get them in the door. I bet as a small shop that is very frustrating. I can??t imagine investing and getting someone spun up and then leaving. I wish you luck it is some crazy times. I have often thought of going solo myself once i get licensed but I am not as young as I once was and I do run a hay business and cattle. So that would be tough for me. I really enjoy the company and people i am with now and it??s much easier for me to flip the surveyor switch to farmer this way now.
@olemanriver Yes it is incredibly frustrating. It’s the amount of time spent training someone in the equipment/software, safety training and legally required courses with no guarantee of employee retention. Just going to work solo for as long as possible before considering employing someone again. Would like to keep existing clients as much as possible.
@totalsurv I hear you. I like holycows advice. Just tell the truth. Truth always wins in the long run. I had a surveyor call once wanting to get on a vrs network. We scheduled a time for me to come discuss it and do a demonstration and talk about the pros n cons. He was a leader in the surveying community and the main owner and other partner knew if we landed him and he was happy more surveyors would subscribe to our network. When i arrived and did the dog and pony show we sat down and i asked him more about what types of jobs and such he did and how he looked at implementation of using vrs rtk. Once he started educating me on his business practices and such i I said you will not be happy with rtk. You should buy a robot instead. The vertical accuracy was not going to help him using rtk in anyway at that time. He had quotes from different manufacturers for a rover and had seen demos etc. we did not care what brand of equipment you had we were selling a service to use vrs. My boss and other business partner asked why i didn??t keep my mouth shut. I said he will come back and he will be ready and then he will be happy. 3 days later 4 companies called and said hey can you come to our area and do a couple days on some real jobs and show us how to make money with rtk vrs. I did 4 different companies and all together we went from job to job playing on real sites with their data etc. all 4 bought subscriptions. 6 months later that man surveyor i was honest with bought one and he was the word of mouth to the other 4 companies. He changed some business practices and took on some new jobs different from what he had before. He had purchased two robots during that time and then two rovers. Honesty all ways wins. Good luck man good luck. Look for those young bucks that are investing in themselves going to chapter meetings and ceu classes but are just starting out. Build the relationship over time and when they are ready to move up or move on from there current role you will have that longer term helper. Make sure what they want to learn is the type of work you are doing. I interviewed with a man said he would hire me before I took this job. We talked bounced ideas off each other. He knew where i wanted to go in my career where my weaknesses were (drafting) etc. we still talk message often. Why he was honest he said i would love to have you. But you will not be happy here as what you need i don??t do at this time. He had some big projects that were not going to help me get prepared at this time. See I know now exactly what to expect. I have the utmost respect for people like him. To many make promises and say what i wanted to hear. He did not. You will be ok you will make it. Don??t know what area you are in or type of work but send me a pm and if i hear or know of anyone i will let you know.
You can’t be everything to everyone all the time. I have a core group of wonderful clients who feed me a lot of work and pay by return mail, but sometimes a particular project is not a good fit for me. I explain it to them and they have always been understanding. If you aren’t the best one for that job tell them why and recommend someone better.
I raised my rates and increased estimated turnaround time frame (currently 4 to 5 months), so I can set myself up to ??under? promise and hopefully ??over? deliver.
Let them be the ones to turn down your honest proposal, rather than you turning them down.
Good clients will appreciate your temporary situation, use someone else for their immediate problem but understand that you are helping them out. Bad clients will probably never come back and this is perfectly fine in the big scheme of things.
We are working on a big project right now that technically is the job of another firm. In fact, I’m working on it with them. Right now I can’t be out in the field at all, thanks to my sciatic nerve pain. I’m handling the research and drafting while they handle the field work. At the same time, we both are working on another big job that is technically my job. Same procedure as above. Win-win. Both making money and maintaining good relations with the clients.
Perhaps you could work out a similar relationship with a nearby surveyor you trust.
@flga-2-2 Owner. Latest employee is leaving after only a few months and I just don’t want to spend the same amount of time training anyone again so need to cut back on workload.
wow… that sucks.
just up and quit or was there any reason given?
Ive been moving toward license and make it perfectly clear when I’m being courted by recruiters that the timeline isn’t infinite. so after I get hired i monitor the work and mentoring to insure it beneficial to both sides.
I also don’t tolerate toxic culture and if I can’t ferret it out before getting hired, I will leave them with notice and never look back.
it’s a good place to be in survey because the lack of good legitimate people keep the working coming in albeit stacked up and slowly getting done….
you’re going to be A-Ok!
Many years ago I needed to hire a secretary. Had eight decent applicants. Narrowed it down to two for interviews. Coin toss as to which would be the better employee. Called both with my decision. The one I hired showed up for one day of work and promptly resigned at the end of the day. The call to the one who had just been told we didn’t need her, but, needed her now was extremely awkward. Fortunately, she agreed to my offer of employment and was still working there a few years later when I left.
Ive been moving toward license and make it perfectly clear when I’m being courted by recruiters that the timeline isn’t infinite. so after I get hired i monitor the work and mentoring to insure it beneficial to both sides.
I also don’t tolerate toxic culture and if I can’t ferret it out before getting hired, I will leave them with notice and never look back.
Amen. This is the 21st century economy / job market. Volatility is the name of the game, both employers and employees have to adapt.
I also have yet to work for a firm that has actually nailed the hiring process. If they’re desperate to hire someone now, they don’t get to complain when that employee they wanted now leaves the firm later.
Also, if an employee seems like they might be wanting to leave, might be a good idea to talk to them and find out what they are missing in their current role. Most exiting employees can point to very specific, often minor, fixes that would have kept them around if changed.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman@rover83 I believe you have just about nailed it. I talk to many friends across the usa that either own or manage in the surveying profession. What i am told is the good ones they hire are the ones most likely to leave. The ones who want to learn and want to grow their skill sets. The ones who ask question and challenge themselves. A good friend said he can hire a decent crew chief and retain him but thats all he will ever be or ever desires to be. Not that it??s bad they just have a job and enjoy it and never want to do more than they currently do. I told him I think you need to implement a training program. Figure out a way to personally spend the time on jobs before and after to train and mentor those who desire to grow. From a business standpoint it??s a double edged sword. Because they can still leave and possibly become a competitor. On the flip side it is benefiting the profession even though they possibly leave. New a company in the 90??s. The RLS said my best field guys are the ones I pick up at the bar late at night. He always hired the party animals. Because they had to have enough money to bar hop Friday and Saturday night they lived for it. Now he had some long term employees but it came with a cost. Higher insurance from dui??s. Equipment was always in bad shape. Etc. These are very interesting times. Who in the profession will rise and produce some of the best surveyors ever. I believe those will be the ones standing because they will have the employees that care and will do well. We all know that at some point the economy will tighten down again and people will be calling begging for a job. But counting on that to hire in my opinion is not that the best way. It??s a bandaid fix and will have some cons as well.
The pay will have to increase for entry level unfortunately at some point. These young folks can make more money riding a zero turn mower than they can starting out as a beginning surveyor. I know a young guy that works his rump off he is making 70k cutting grass and doing landscaping for a guy. He is interested in surveying but he has no experience. 25 years old good at math and when i tell him all my boss is willing to pay starting out he sais i have a wife and baby I can??t do that. He hustles doing hay with me and cleaning stalls for a horse barn keeping arena grades etc in addition to his day job. The whole $20 per hour is way outdated. Wawa and Sheetz pays that to a high-school kid. I know we can only charge so much so this choke point is coming at some point.
Who in the profession will rise and produce some of the best surveyors ever….
I’m doing everything I can to learn what not to do and take the best things I’ve learned and master them to pass them along…
I know you do too, all of us do…it’s how we were mentored….
@rover83 …
The pay will have to increase for entry level unfortunately at some point. These young folks can make more money riding a zero turn mower than they can starting out as a beginning surveyor. … I know we can only charge so much so this choke point is coming at some point.
My company has been dealing with this recently as well. Starting pay was bumped up, which minimized the significance between rodman and non LSIT PC/Field LS pay, etc. To maintain significance in the steps they all needed to adjust, to be fair.
@jbw Yes it??s a domino effect. Owners have a tough time because they have to balance all of this off of the ability to make money to keep all employed along with what the market will bare. It is a constant juggling act. Most younger employees do not truly understand how much it cost to actually run a business. I had one once always grumbling. The boss is rich he can afford this and that. Yes I am sure there are some greedy business owners. But for the most part most business owners are taking all the risk and do care that tomorrow they will be able to keep the employees paid so they can feed there families as well. Is why when inflation and other economic turns things always get a little tense as everyone who is paying attention knows that at any moment the breaking point is near. It is not easy to run a business. Takes a lot of work lot of thinking and maneuvering to juggle all the plates. Being fare is not always easy nore is it always a realistic choice. I am an entrepreneur at heart. I have loved being a partner or owner. But it can be exhausting at times. It is much easier to do your hours and go home. But as a owner it is always something to deal with.
Many years ago I had my two helpers nearly revolt because we were working for a major jerk on a survey project. They demanded to know why I would accept a job from this jerk who I had taken to court to be paid for a small job a few years earlier. I put it in the simplest terms possible, “It’s so you both will get paid this week.” I had demanded 80 percent of the projected invoice ahead of our starting the job. BTW, I did get the other 20 percent in cash before handing him the paperwork.
The truth was I had far too much, at the time, in uncollected invoices from “good” clients. Most of those clients had a “once each month” payment practice that was not putting money in my account in time to pay my guys that specific week.
@holy-cow It is tough. Cash flow and profit do not always align at the right time. It doesn??t matter if its surveying farming or selling lemonade. Running a business is not easy or everyone would do it. You were doing your best and as I am sure you have learned its not always appreciated at the lower levels from employees. Some I think take way to much personally. Its a lack of knowledge that is hard to pass down. Especially in times were the world is always screaming the business owners are all rich and mean type stuff. I actually don??t know how you do it now days. I have seen a lot of really good people hired. And seen a lot with attitudes. One of my youngest crew chiefs is worth his weight in gold. He just flat out has the right attitude. The boss informed me he hired a new chief to start at end of the month. He went over all his background knowledge. I asked one question. What is his attitude. I can teach surveying. I can teach how to set up the gun how to push buttons and measure. How to look for things. I have not figured out how to teach attitude. You telling your team its to keep you paid. Working for the A- hole. Did it work. Did any of them truly understand. I would be pacing the floor in these times if I were running a business with employees right now. I have daughters and wife for farm. But we make it fun and family event. Sometimes one of the girls gets grumpy. They take turns on that. But I expect it from a 8 year old and 11 year old. My 8 year old worked her rump off yesterday helping me get hay in wagon. The 11 year old slow and such. But most of the time they both do well. The 11 year old would rather just rub and look and pet the cows. She loves the taking care part given vaccinations and such. The 8 year old loves feeding and dragging small squares to trailer. I hope and pray they both make good adults one day. Good luck during these times. Y??all owners have your work cut out for sure.
Employees do not work for free, but the bosses don’t have that excuse as it’s their own fault if they don’t get paid adequately.
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