-
The Crucible Of Becoming A Surveyor
8am a week from now we’ll be taking the exams.
I haven’t missed a day studying for quite some time. Usually 2+ hours in the morning.
I worry if I am studying the right stuff. I got the sample exam for the national and took it cold last week and got an 82% and saw what I needed to brush up on. Mostly just terminology or word usage, One obvious thing I need to study more is the single and double proportioning stuff in the Manual: I missed a few of those, and somehow they never had the answer “keep digging” so there must be more to it, at least in theory.The WA state specific I have been hitting the water rights, early GLO, and and case law really hard. The case law has been the biggest eye opener, Jerry Broadus’ book in particular.
It is really making me think about, “What does a surveyor do?” & how you explain that to prospective clients.
It is really making me think about, what does a surveyor NOT DO EVER & how you explain that also.
And it is helping me to pare down exactly what my business model is going to be, based on those things. That’s the crucible part I did not foresee.
I am starting to see my future license as something that’s not really ME, more as some other entity that I work for, just like the rest of my crew. As something larger than myself that I am just a steward for.
There are some standards that I intend to keep, and that in my career, I want to inspire others to keep.
1) Never stake on the first day. Always sleep on it, like those Old Testament judges.
I know guys who stake on the first day, then check it and hope they don’t have to go back to bump it. They make a good margin this way. I am told that a party chief who can calc something in the truck and stick it on arrival will make you money. Seems like they will make you liability, too.
2) Nothing gets my cap without me standing there.
I think this is just how it should be. We can all quibble about direct supervision via cell phone, internet, carrier pigeon, clairvoyance. Many will scream about how this just isn’t scalable, they trust their ten crews, etc.
Surveying isn’t scalable. It’s personal. There is only one of you. That’s what makes it professional. Without that, Dominos could deliver surveys by franchise.
3) Always have a crew.
Solo surveying doesn’t train anyone. The mere fact of being licensed means you can supervise someone else’s time. I wouldn’t be nearly this far along without some mentors who took me along when they didn’t have to. When I started surveying I didn’t think this way, I got into robotics and GPS did a lot of solo fieldwork. Now I am slowed down by an autoimmune condition and I can barely lift my own gear. Humbling. So I am hoping that if I inspire a good crew that they will drive me around and put up with my eccentricities, at least until the Tiny Bubbles are driving age.
4) Teach.
A few years ago I put in a paper for ACSM 2009 and to my surprise they accepted and paid me an honoraria to give a 4 hour workshop and asked me back the next year. It was an interesting brief glimpse into the conference and teaching circuit. The same paper was accepted for FIG but I could not afford the travel to Australia to give it. The next year, ASCM went belly up and the conference honoraria dried up, and the conference presentation game became pay-to-play. Meanwhile I am keeping the Big Pharma in business on i-man wages.
I quit pushing to give seminars locally a few years ago, partly because of health, and partly because there was some muttering about whether an unlicensed guy was “qualified” to teach. Anyone who doubts can lead, follow, or crawl off and die somewhere.
I just sent in three abstracts for the state conference, we’ll see what happens.
I’ll be teaching some informal classes about least squares next month at Renton Tech, CEU’s available.
My LinkedIn is in my profile, feel free to connect.
-
23 Replies
-
You Do Know That If You Pass The Exams
You have to ditch the vagabond minstrel avatar.
Paul in PA
-
You Do Know That If You Pass The Exams
It’s true……
I even had to scrape the “Fu*enGruven” parody sticker off the back window of my old reliable VW Rabbit. :'(
The party is officially over…… and the work begins. :-O
The things they never told me….. all came to light. o.O
Worth it? :-/
Sure! B-)
-
You Do Know That If You Pass The Exams
Half bubble is right on, especially items 1 and 2. Seldom do I stake the first time out. It has saved my bacon countless times.
I don’t see how these guys that send out “kids” can sleep at night. Its like a doctor allowing the nurses to do the surgery and asking them to report back on how it went.John Harmon
-
One thing missing in your Crucible is that a primary objective is to make money at doing something you truly do enjoy doing. It’s a profession, but it is still a business. Not many career paths will take you that way as much as land surveying will.
That being said, you’ve made some other very valid points. Such as us solo guys (20 yrs for me) don’t train anybody, aside from clients. Unfortunately, that is the reality of the situation. But see above comment for another reality check that may or may not be negotiable at a bank.
Best of luck to you Mr Bubble
-
The two absolutely best pieces of advice I got/applied during the test were:
1) View all the boundary questions through the lens of: Am I the original or retracing surveyor? Retracing surveyors SHOULD be looking for and following footsteps2)Know what you know. In other words if you do tons of GIS and BLM, know your GIS and BLM inside and out, getting all those points.
The advice I would add:
3)The practice test was much harder than the actual test in my opinion.
4)The math was real simple. Most of the problems have the answer there for all to see with little or no calculation. They give you fifteen variables and only one or two matter. If you’re working real hard at the math you’re probably on the wrong track re-read the problem.
5)Boundary is the majority of the test. Thank God. What should be common sense prevails so refer to rule #1.
I was allowed references. My top three were:
Surveyors Reference Manual-PPI
Surveying Principals and Applications-Kavanaugh
Writing Legal Descriptions-WattlesHad a whole box of others and used the BLM Manual once.
Steve
-
I agree with the practice test being harder. In my case it was far more difficult. You are right on about the math too. I used my calculator on only four questions on the whole test. Of course, I’m on speaking of the national exam, since VA is the only state exam I’ve ever taken. I took the national exam and VA state specific in May and passed both.
I would advise you to NOT rush through the national exam, there’s plenty of time since it is now closed book. There was little math, so you either know the answer or you don’t. I finished with enough time to go over every question a second time, just to make sure I didn’t misread something. Sounds like you are definitely studying the right stuff for that.
I don’t know about your state exam, but VA’s is 50 questions with a 2 hour limit. It is open book. but you don’t have much “book time”. There were a few drainage questions that obviously can’t be calculated in 2-3 minutes (hydraulic radius of a pipe). If that’s the case for you, I suggest not spending much time with that. Guess “C” and move on to questions you know you can answer correctly. Then in “real world surveying” take the time to do it right (now that you are licensed 😉 ).
Good Luck! You seem to be taking this more serious than some people I know. That’s a pretty good sign that you will do better than you think.
-
How much is the survey ?
Five grand.
If they don’t hang up right away they might get a discount.
That said, this is the area I am most naive about, and would appreciate any comments.
-
> How much is the survey ?
>
> Five grand.
>
> If they don’t hang up right away they might get a discount.
>
> That said, this is the area I am most naive about, and would appreciate any comments.All I can suggest about this topic is that 90% of all the work I get, and I believe many other old timers around here – is referrals. That’s the bread & butter and it’s all about forming your niche to coincide with your network.
When the first question is “how much”, I usually don’t get the job. Why get paid $5K when it’s worth $7K to the client? It’s not about your time, it’s about the value to the client.
Search Larry P on this site (with the goofy glasses). He has lots of good ideas on this topic.
-
my advice…
Lighten up a little bit! Seems like you’re in a rush to get it all figured out before you’ve barely begun.
Good luck on the test.
Andy
-
You Do Know That If You Pass The Exams
Maybe get an avatar of a flag instead….?
-
Exam taking advice:
Go from easy to hard.
Leave the hardest for last.
If you get hung up on a problem, don’t dwell on it, move on.
The goal is to get enough points to pass, not do every problem.
-
my advice…
> Lighten up a little bit! Seems like you’re in a rush to get it all figured out before you’ve barely begun.
Now come one Andy; everyone has seen the results of maximum “figured out-ness” plotted over the average life span 😉
-
:good:
… I would add that the exam for licensure demonstrates you are minimally competent to practice land surveying. The real learning begins once you have obtained your license and begin practicing.
Good Luck!
-
my advice…
haha…good chart.
You need to have “0′ on the left and somewhere around “20-30” right there in the peak area.
-
Amen. :good:
Willy -
Double Amen to that one.
I’ll just add that sometimes you really have to be careful what you wish for – you may just get it. Crucible Volume 6, Chapter 6, Page 6. Oh no…. 666…lol
Good luck Bubble 😀
-
“It’s not about your time, it’s about the value to the client.”
AMEN Wayne! This is what *isses me off so much about the low-ballers. They demean the value of our profession – drives me nuts!!
-
That’s great advice from Dave.
It’s obvious that you are going to pass the exam.
My advice is that you not plan on going into business for yourself the day after you get licensed.
-
I follow Uncle Larry pretty close, I am still contemplating all the angles of his value pricing. I am not always sure how to calculate what the value is to the client, or how to ask, or if they will tell me. I can offer a black-box lump sum price of how much it will cost to do the job to my standards, and they can decide if it is worth it to them. If there is some value left on the table, I need to learn how to wind up with those chips. I suppose first you have to know that they are there.
My $5k price with potential steep discounts for orphans and little old ladies is for those city lot surveys I can walk to, that normally go for $850-$1000 and that a lowballer would do for $500. I probably wouldn’t take a job much larger than 40 acres at this point, and those are outside my walking range. So your $7k job would be a cheeky $35k, and if they didn’t hang up we might get along. I’m just not thinking of jobs that big yet.
(BTW what’s an example of a $7k job in your area?)
-
You Do Know That If You Pass The Exams
It’s what I look like 24/7. Constructive notice that you are not in Kansas anymore!
Log in to reply.