Surveyors and lead exposure

[Unknown Member]

Surveying often is risky business. I’ve been exposed to the the threat of lead twice.
I just beat a hasty retreat and infomed those better equipped to handle such.

However! I have often contemplated using it as a bedding for spikes etc in cracks, rock outcrops to permanently hold a mark in place.
I am concious of the risks.

We have a local that makes lead soldiers.
That’s a concern in my books.

As a kid it was common to melt the stuff and play about with it.
Like many things from yesteryear, we weren’t aware of the dangers.

[MightyMoe]

I don’t recall ever seeing a lead and tack monument. I’ve never heard of any surveyor setting such a thing, except here on this board.

My advice as always is to buy a good drill like a hilti, you will never go back, eliminate the lead, counter sink monuments on rebar or those nice stem monuments, your clients will see them and like them.

Better the drill than health issues, monuments that only other surveyors can find, or lame pk nails.

[John]

To throw some more into the mix: how about lead bullets? (Am I correct on this?)

I used to handle bullets at a summer camp I went to. Used (probably lead) solder while building Heathkit projects.

Thermometers had mercury in them. Some toys I had contained mercury. Never broke any of them or got exposed to my knowledge.

[jhframe]

It’s been some years since I’ve set any monuments in lead, but I still have a few pounds of lead wool in the truck for that purpose. I also have maybe 20 pounds of lead bars from a defunct set of ankle weights I got years ago. (Newer ankle weights use cast iron bars, just a lot more of them.) And I probably have some old tire weights hanging around from when I used to pick them up (all the newer ones I’ve seen are made of some other metal, maybe steel.) I still use tin/lead solder for electrical stuff, though.

I’m hoping that the significant hazard involves daily workplace exposure rather than occasional contact. It certainly makes sense to wash any body parts that come into contact with the stuff afterward in any case.

[paul-in-pa]

Lead exposure is cumulative. The occasional lead use in surveying hardly calls for alarm and third party exposure is highly unlikely to be detectable. Top of the list of areas to be concerned about today are indoor shooting ranges and that appears to be now well handled. I handle lead roundball for flintlock muzzleloader at demonstration events and handle dozens a day. You can see it begin to accumulate on your fingertips, which calls for hygiene. Good hygiene should prevent third party exposure. 22 ammo lends an opportunity for exposure due to the exposed lead bullets. However there is no need to actually touch the bullet when loading. Again good hygiene is required. For example Boy Scouts are required to wash their hands before leaving the rifle range.

What we need are signs in the survey office washroom requesting all employees to wash their hands before eating or going home.

I would say more of the problem today is that fewer children and far fewer adults consume milk on a daily basis. Milk can remove lead that has accumulated in your system.

Paul in PA

[bill93]

I don’t see occasional handling of lead to be a problem, especially if you wash your hands before eating. When something is “known to the state of California” to be nasty, there is never any level of exposure indicated.

It can build up in the body with chronic exposure and has more effect on the young. Most of the childhood problems have been due to them ingesting lead from old paint flakes/powder. Many people over the decades worked with lead solder, or molding and shooting bullets, and not died of it.

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[Jim in AZ]

We used lead wool & tacks years ago – I have probably set 20 or so monuments using them. [sarcasm]I think I accidentally dropped it all in a manhole one day, but I was shaking so bad and my vision was so foggy from being exposed to it that I couldn’t get it out…[/sarcasm]

[Crashbox]

This is quite an old thread but one worth resurrecting IMO.

Back when I started with WSDOT in 1991, we set L&T all over the place for centerline monumentation through the old twin bore tunnels on I-90 on the west side of Lake Washington, as well as RP’s for various assorted existing mons in the vicinity. Star drills were not a lot of fun to use, but they did get the job done. I’m pretty sure the L&T we set back then is still in place today.

I’ve heard that King County, Washington, no longer permits its use, and there may be other municipalities that prohibit same. I reckon there are suitable alternatives today, e.g., epoxy putty, that one could employ if need be. But personally- from an environmental contamination standpoint- I see no difference between L&T and a single lead bullet lying on the ground, and the surface area is likely considerably less with L&T. One does, however, need to use due care and caution whenever they are handling heavy metals and other potential skull-and-crossbones materials.

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The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found.

[paul-in-pa]

Lead can accumulate in the body over time, but it is also rid of over time. Milk aids in lead removal. The amount of contact with lead in surveying is far less than the amount contacted during target shooting, especially indoor ranges. From time to time lead cleanup is required for target ranges as well as specialized ventilation for indoor ranges, which keeps contact to reasonably safe levels. It was far more dangerous when leaded gasoline was used to clean engine parts way back when and lead paint was used everywhere. The biggest threat to children was ingesting peeling lead paint, most common accessible point was wooden window sills. Besides having lead paint they accumulated moisture and were then exposed to sunlight, paint peeled off in huge chips as it was an ideal environment for peeling. Toddlers picked up the pieces and put them in their mouth. Today we have vinyl paint, aluminum and vinyl windowsills and vigorous efforts were made to remove old paint. That is why fewer people are aware of it.

My opinion is not to worry, unless you melt lead and cast your own bullets or lead figures.

Paul in PA

[Norman_Oklahoma]

Portland area County Surveyors required us to stop using lead about 10 years ago. We are all using the Bernsten brass plugs instead now. They are better in other ways as well. So there is not too much complaint.

[paul-in-pa]

Lead can accumulate in the body over time, but it is also rid of over time. Milk aids in lead removal. The amount of contact with lead in surveying is far less than the amount contacted during target shooting with  22s or other unjacketed bullets., especially indoor ranges. From time to time lead cleanup is required for target ranges as well as specialized ventilation for indoor ranges, which keeps contact to reasonably safe levels. The last few years I worked target rabges at Scout camp the Scouts were required to wash their hands before leaving the site.

It was far more dangerous when leaded gasoline was used to clean engine parts way back when and lead paint was used everywhere. The biggest threat to children was ingesting peeling lead paint, most common accessible point was wooden window sills. Besides having lead paint they accumulated moisture and were then exposed to sunlight, paint peeled off in huge chips as it was an ideal environment for peeling. Toddlers picked up the pieces and put them in their mouth. Today we have vinyl paint, aluminum and vinyl windowsills and vigorous efforts were made to remove old paint. That is why fewer people are aware of it.

My opinion is not to worry, unless you melt lead and cast your own bullets or lead figures.

Paul in PA

[thebionicman]

I cast my own bullets and sinkers for a long time. A little common sense goes a long way…

[a-harris]

Born in the early 50s I’ve come in contact with lead in many forms from toys to wall paint and making our own fishing weights.

I remember the early plumbers that worked with lead most every day and the sight of a mountain of lead filled batteries in the middle of most towns and cities outside of a parts store or mechanic shop.

The same with asbestos, numerous hazardous chemicals contained in vehicles, solvents, spray – powder – tabs of insecticide and fertilizer and chlorine of all sorts and all sorts of mechanical fluids.

After working several years inside paper mills across the south, there is no telling what I’ve been exposed to and once I stepped thru a low water crossing and my feet felt scalded and my boots fell apart less than a week later, they just kinda dissolved into mush.

The best thing a person can do is say no and hire someone to do the dirty work.

That is why it costs $40+ to get your oil changed and so on up the ladder of mega $$$$$$ in the handling and working with hazardous waste materials.

[Ralph]

To my horror, after about ten years in the business, I came to notice that new flagging I was buying came with a label that proclaimed “Now, Lead Free”.

Back in the day, one would spend hours flagging lath (not lathe) and chaining nails. Remember those? I used to treat a the dang flagging like chewing gum.

LEAD FREE. Thanks.

JA, PLS SoCal

 

JA, PLS SoCal 

[Iceman]

When I was little, I would chew on my lead soldiers.

Still have my soldiers, and the teeth marks are still there.