-
Scanning Manhole Inverts at Scale
We recently had a request come through our door for a massive DOT project that is going to be flown with aerial lidar & they want the manhole inverts scanned as well.
I’m trying to figure out if there is a feasible way to provide this in a cost effective manner. We have numerous scanners in our arsenal but I’m leaning towards using our BLK2GO. Here is what I’m thinking so far and if anyone has any suggestions please chime in…
1. Two man crew, one person cones off the area & pulls the lid then sets 3 small black and white targets with a portable table top number plate beside each target that is set to the point number that will be stored when they he shoots them in via RTK. As for positioning of the targets I was thinking maybe 3-5 meters from the opening.
2. The second man has the BLK2GO, starts the scan a few meters back from the opening, once initialized, he takes it off the stand and screws it onto an extendable pole. He scans the opening, the targets & number plates then plunges the BLK2GO through the opening of the manhole where they scan barrel & inverts. He pulls the BLK out, unscrews it and sets it back on the base then shuts it down.
The “walk” would be exported from register360 and brought into CloudCompare for alignment to the RTK points. I most likely would only shift in XYZ and rotate in Z letting the scanner set the scale and “flatness” of the dataset.
I imagine they should be able to do a manhole in 5-10 minutes +/- and the backend shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes each if a bunch of scans are done at a time. Obviously this methodology isn’t provided centimeter level accuracy but I think 5-10 cm wouldn’t be hard to achieve.
-
17 Replies
-
Engineers and their affinity for lidar data…
It’s likely you won’t “have numerous scanners in our arsenal” when you’re done.
-
This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by mulambda382.
-
This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by
-
Do you have a wearable SLAM scanner? We’ve used our VLX3 on shallow <8′ Manholes with success.
-
Does a scanner go beyond the surface of the water. How about floaters, what does the scanner see?
-
They will penetrate an inch or two of water in most cases. If the water isn’t too murky. Nevertheless, the scanner will get enough of the dry inside surface of the pipe that true invert can be readily deduced.
-
We have a VLX as well but the extra time and cost that it would take to use it over the BLK makes it not feasible at scale. Plus no one is lowering a VLX into a manhole.
-
Are there any particular techniques to getting a useable point cloud for deducing inverts and pipes sizes? I tried scanning a few manholes a couple months ago with a demo FARO Orbis. The cloud was awfully fuzzy at the bottom of the manhole and I wasn’t able to determine any useful information from any of the three scans. I haven’t pursued purchasing a SLAM scanner since that test as a result.
-
What’s the required precision? Dot3d with Apriltags and a disto as a check is pretty economical. If it is precise enough depends on the project specs.
-
If you can determine the diameter of the pipe bore, it’s easy but the invert is only as good as the vertical.
-
Before I spent any time figuring out the best way to scan the inverts I’d ask the client what they actually want and need. If the answer comes back “inverts,” I’d put the scanners away and put the Pipe Mic and a 25′ fiberglass leveling rod in the truck instead.
-
Example of one we scanned with an iPhone 14 Pro using 3dscan. Please note:
-FBX as this was meant as a check on the disto dips and for visual confirmation
-georeferencing was not required
-export to .RCS was not required
-things checked with the dips within 1″ to 2″ as long as the lighting was good
-we recommended CloudCompare to the civil engineers if they wanted to measure, cut sections, etc.
-scan time was 5 to 10 minutes per structure depending on its depth
-a light is helpful for tall structures or when you are staying out late
-you may end up dipping your phone, which you hold to your face, in excrement (my “side hustle” is running a hog farm so………..just par for the course)
-
Well you could put an RTK or prism on the top of something like this and a prism at the hole for a backsight.
Make sure it’s plumb of course.
It has a high power 3R laser and close mode, will scan wet, black or shiny surfaces.
Registration is a case of reversing the horizontal and vertical angles, rotating the scan 180 degrees around the y axis, then adding the instrument azimuth to the global azimuth from occupation to back sight and entering the result into the rotation about the z axis. It’s fast, simple and reliable.
Just don’t drop it in.🤣
-
This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by pfirmst.
-
This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by
-
I would try this offset option.
-
This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by GaryG.
-
This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by
-
“I imagine they should be able to do a manhole in 5-10 minutes”
Depending on whether or not you include the walk or drive between the MHs, you might want to double your time estimate.
While performing asset inventories for sanitary sewer systems, we popped the top with a long offset handle hook and a strong back, rough measured inverts with a grade rod, and used a mirror/light to look at and approximate size and material. Our best day (eight working hours including travel throughout the town but not to it) we were able to get fifty manholes and that was in a new subdivision. If any are old and rusty (gotta beat’em with a sledge), partially buried (gotta dig them out then struggle to reset them) bolted or have locking lids it will take significantly longer than five minutes.
-
Agreed. That’s just the time for a scan with an iPhone. Please note we only scan for documentation purposes and they are not used as the primary measurement source (just as a check).
That 5 to 10 does not take into account travel, opening, disto measuring, note taking, closing, etc. It also largely depends on whether it is a solo or multi-person crew.
An old fart like me would not be able to do 50 structure investigations in a 12 hr day.
-
Unless someone has been through and opened them very recently I’d suggest one run to locate them, check not under pile of rubbish etc. and most importantly the lid is not seized! Make sure you exclude seized lid in your pricing. Second trip to do the actual surveying in production mode.
-
-
I just set in on a demo last week. The guys had came and did a scan around the company building office and had several manholes. They scanned and caught the tops of them all. Then they used some tripod inverted and dropped the scanner down and scanned one manhole was pushing 20 foot so a couple scans had to be done as it was lowered down. So they could register to the main cloud above ground. They had ran a good traverse around the site to tie the scanner to where they also had some building corners and top of manhole elevations and the inverts already done. Even the 20’ deep manhole came out very nice. One pipe was obstructed at the bottom and was easy enough to get the diameter of the pipe side ways then pick the top of pipe and based on size to compute the invert. I was amazed at how well everything worked with many independent checks.
Log in to reply.