ring a dingalng
We received a request for a proposal through out website…. potential client and husband had just bought a lot and couldn’t find their corners. At their other home in Duxbury all the corners were in and obvious but not down here in Harwich. I did some digging and found out that they bought a corner lot, with a paper road on the east side. From the aerial I could see that the neighbor to the rear was using the paper road as access but that it looked as if there was very little room between the potential clients drive and the paved drive to the rear. Also, the subdivision was from the mid forties and showed very little control.
I said $750, research, field staking plan etc…oh, and I always include a sketch showing what I found, held and set…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~this was her response:
“Thanks for getting back to me. I already have the registry of deeds plot plan for both our property and subdivison, so researching it really isn’t needed. I was just looking for some help finding our boundaries. The cost is quite a bit higher than I anticipated, so I think we will have to wait.thank you for your time.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My response:
Ms. XXXXXX,
Thank you for your interest in having Outermost Land Survey, Inc. survey your property. I appreciate your comments regarding the cost of a survey and I thought that I should take a moment to explain that Land Surveying is a strictly regulated Profession in MA and that there are certain requirements that must be followed in order to guarantee a useful survey. The regulations can be found at the MA Code, Chapter 250.
Section 6 defines the “minimum” requirements that must be followed: 6.01 relates to your request.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~6.01: Cadastral, Original and Retracement Surveys
(1) Procedural Standards.(a) Research and Investigation. The surveyor shall:
Obtain a legal description of property to be surveyed as well as a legal description of abutting properties.
Obtain copies of recorded documents affecting the survey.
Obtain from utility companies, public offices and Land Court copies of available plans, documents and field notes affecting the survey.
Obtain from known private sources available copies of data affecting the survey.
Obtain copies of the applicable zoning by-laws that govern in the area in which the property is located.
(b) Analysis of Research and Pre1iminary Conclusions. The surveyor shall:Examine thoroughly and analyze data.
Test consistency of data by plotting and compiling available record information.
Form preliminary conclusions as to the completeness of data and reconcile any inconsistencies in the record information.
Plan procedure for performing the field surveys.
(c) Field Investigation. The surveyor shall:Search for physical monuments and weigh their reliability.
Search for and locate monuments and rea1 evidence which affect the survey.
Investigate possible parole (oral) and written evidence supporting positions of obliterated control monuments and have affidavits taken if necessary.
Make measurements to correlate all found evidence.
Whenever possible, connect the survey with proper adjustments to the Massachusetts Plane Coordinate System.
Take sufficient check measurements to verify the work.
Locate physical occupation lines (e.g., fences, hedges, walls, etc.) between adjoiners; make comments on possible age of possession; verify age by parole and written evidence.
Record all information, preferably in a bound field notebook; incorrect data shall be crossed out not erased.
Set adequate monumentation for reestablishing property lines.
(d) Computations, Conclusions and Publications of Results. The surveyor shall:Compute and compare field information with record data.
In the event of substantial disagreement with the work of another surveyor, contact the other surveyor and investigate the disagreement.
Make interpretation of location in accordance with law and/or precedent, and finalize the establishment of the property lines.
Make final decisions and computations for determination of existing and new property lines.
Provide sufficient monumentation to enable the reproduction of the survey on the ground.
When applicable, e.g., parcels created by new subdivision, furnish the client, in addition to a plan, a metes and bounds description of the land, and make reference to the plan in the description.
Retain all records that may be used to substantiate conclusions reached in an indexed file.
(2) Technical Standards.(a) Measurements.
Measurements shall be taken to a precision compatible with the particular problem involved and with the size and geometric shape of the parcel involved.
All measurements made to establish property lines shall be taken with a minimum precision of 1 part in 12,000.
All linear measurements shal1 be taken with a properly calibrated measuring device with a record of calibration maintained for future reference.
(b) Monuments.A substantial number of corners shall be marked with a physical monument and set in a manner providing a degree of permanency consistent with the terrain, physical features and desired use.
When conditions require setting a monument on an offset rather than at the true corner, the location shall be selected so the monument lies on a line of the survey or a prolongation of such line if possible. Offsets shall not be in fractional feet from the corner unless a physical obstruction affects their location. Offset monuments shall be marked as such.
It is desireable that monuments have the surveyor’s name and license number affixed thereto.
Monuments shall be witnessed in such a manner that they will be easily discoverable.
(c) Field Notes. All pertinent information, measurements and observations made in the field during the course of the survey shall be recorded in an appropriate field note form and in a manner that is inte11igible to other surveyors. All field notes shall indicate location, street names, client, party members in crew, instrument, measurement device, date and weather conditions affecting measurements.(d) Plans. The client shal1 be furnished a plan drawn to an appropriate scale in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Registers of Deeds dated June 19, 1975, the Massachusetts Land Court, the Subdivision Control Law and Local Requirements.
A title block containing the political subdivision of the parcel surveyed, the owner’s name, date, scale, meter and foot bar scale and name and address of the firm or surveyor responsible for the survey shall be shown. Revisions shall be noted near the title block with reference number, date, description and initials of the responsible surveyor.
The locus shall be referenced to the nearest physical monumentation. If necessary, a vicinity map shall be provided.
Meridian arrow and its origin shall be indicated.
All pertinent bearings, dimensions and areas shall be indicated. Source of information shall be shown for recorded data.
All monuments, whether found or set, shall be noted on the plan and identified as to character.
The relation of all monuments to the property lines and corners shall be noted.
When a planimetric or topographic feature controls the location of a line or point found or being created, the relationship of the feature to the line or point shall be shown.
Names of locus owners and abutting property owners shall be shown.
Sufficient data shall be shown on the plan to allow the retracement of all the created lines and points.
Parcels of land containing two acres or less shall not have a mathematical closure error of more than 0.03 feet. Parcels of land containing more than two acres shall not have a mathematical closure of more than 0.05 feet. Any parcel of land which has an irregular boundary shall have a closing tie line or lines in the general vicinity of said irregular boundary.
The Registered Land Surveyor’s seal, signature and date shall be affixed to the plan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Although portions of these requirements may be amended to conform to the clients needs, these regulations are in place to protect the public from incompetent surveyors.
Once again, thank you for your interest and I hope that if you need land surveying services in the future you will contact us again!
Don Poole
- 19 Replies
There’s no way they’re reading all of that.
Hey, Don
How long do you think it took before her eyes glazed over?
Remembering Duxbury like I do and the value of property there and purchasing property on the Cape, I believe Foggy gave them a very fair price.
As a famous knioght once said…”They chose poorly…”
Ric
They thought it would be under $100.
The general public seems to love us about as much as they do dentists…..
> My response:
>
> Ms. XXXXXX,
>
> Thank you for your interest in having Outermost Land Survey, Inc. survey your property.Didn’t you mean to say something like “provide a quote to survey your property” ?
I’d go with 5 seconds 🙂
it’s just a point that needs to be made in my opinion…
Triage
Providing surveying services to the public requires triage.
1. There are those that (for whatever reason) are beyond the scope of your ‘services’.
2. There are those that need your services and are willing to pay professional fees.
3. There are those that really don’t want or need your full services, and will probably get along just fine without you. Usually something trivial that a brief phone conversation can cure.
Sounds like your prospective client falls in #1 – the “hopeless” category. It doesn’t matter how far you bend over backwards or how much money you lose, they’re never satisfied.
They may really “need” a survey and could be heading for a brickwall…but in America they have the right to be stoopid. It’s not against the law…and we’re not bound by a Hippocratic oath.
Walk away from these folks, you’ll live longer.
$750?
Geeze, Foggy, how can you do all of that for $750?
You’re killing the rest of us trying to make a buck.
lol
JA, PLS, SoCal
[i]”Thanks for getting back to me. I already have the registry of deeds plot plan for both our property and subdivison, so researching it really isn’t needed. I was just looking for some help finding our boundaries.”
Well then, if it’s so easy, why do you need my help? Do it yourself.
They own property in Duxbury? Isnt it like 100K just for the front porch in that town? They’ll be shopping no doubt.
You did the right thing. Even if her eye’s glazed over, and she didnt understand a word, she’ll at least realize there is a lot involved.
Well, maybe. People with money, I dont know how they get it, because none of them are that smart.
-V
$750?
Yeah, I understand where you are coming from and the copy / paste of 250 CMR is nice, but you weren’t going to perform all of the tasks in 250 CMR 6 for a couple of corners… it’s still a fair price for the task at hand. You could have sent her this way and I’ve quoted her more…
When a clent wants to know if doing some of the work themselves (research and such) will affect the price, I say yes, double it.
I tell prospective clients the rate is time-and-a-half if they watch…double-time if they help.
We always offer them the “Do it yourself special”. For $29.95 we’ll drive by your house and throw the stakes on the front lawn. You put em in yourself!
exactly… I don’t install widgets, so you going out to pre-buy my materials or research something for me doesn’t help one iota. Unless you have some unrecorded family deeds or something pertinent, I’ll handle all that myself, thanks.
We got people in my area doing lots for $100…no wonder I’m about to go on food stamps and welfare….
Ronald W. Berry> I’d go with 5 seconds 🙂
>
> it’s just a point that needs to be made in my opinion…:good:
I did a lot survey for a closing earlier this week in a subdivision that was platted in 1961. The retiree neighbor was out doing yard work, and of course questioned why I was digging holes in his yard. I went into the short course on surveying, explaining how I had to find corners up & down the block to determine where the corners for my subject property were, and so on. After I got done with my explanation he looked at me and said “I had no idea that there was so much to this.” It’s satisfying to see when the light goes on.
> There’s no way they’re reading all of that.
Me neither!
ring a dingaling
Don – I have re-read this line a couple of times and think you are correct. Sorry that I commented before the coffee took hold…
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