-
Remembering Back
This year will be my 32nd year as a surveyor and I will turn 50, so this has pretty much been my life story except for the crazy times of my youth. As I look back to the 1980’s, I realize that there have been so many changes in the way we can quickly access information that many here cannot even fathom.
Aerial images were very hard to come by and you had to go to a specific place to order and pay dearly to get them. Now we have Google Earth for free.
Topographic quad sheets either had to be mail ordered or if you were lucky enough to have a local distributor you could go there. I was fortunate to live close to the University of Nebraska where the geology department had them. I would compile a careful list and get the ones I wanted. $5.00 each which was a lot in the 1980’s. Finding the older versions was tough. Now they are all free online.
Getting a latitude/longitude position meant you had to either triangulate from a known triangulation station or scale it to the nearest second off a 7.5-minute quad. GPS was still not available for the every day user. Now Google Earth has latitude/longitude more accurate than what we scaled.
NGS datasheets for triangulation stations and bench marks were printed out on paper. One sheet for a tri station and multiple bench marks on other sheets. Whatever you had for the paper copy was the latest update. Sometimes you might see “Destroyed” scribbled next to a bench mark description. There was no online database. No radial search function to find multiple ones. If you were lucky, you had a state advisor you could call for assistance.
Many still did not trust that thing called EDM and just to be sure, you would chain the distance until your confidence level told you it was going to be okay.
I once had all the trigonometry and curve formulas memorized. Everyone seemed to have some sort of cheat sheet they carried with them just in case.
Everything was drawn by hand. The 8.5″x11″ letter guide sheet slipped under the mylar. An exacto knife was the eraser on cloth scraping out flecks of ink. Someone would burn a hole through the mylar with an electric eraser or shine it so bad it would no longer take ink. Leroy sets and Ames Lettering Guides were awesome tools.
Having that 00 pen roll off the drafting table was a death sentence because you knew the tip was smashed beyond repair. Those little plungers with the wire would cost you $10.00 to replace. I could never keep that 000 pen clean enough to use. Someone developed a triangle shaped rubber that slipped down the barrel of the pen to keep it from rolling. Sometimes we would suck on the tips and spit out the ink to get them unclogged. If your lips were black, everyone knew what you had done.
I’m still young compared to some of you. Care to share some experiences?
-
40 Replies
-
Now, we should get you a Javad demo. Yes, it is still being developed, but the core goodies are awesome!
It’s another step.
N
-
We held back, when a new thing came along. So, we drug a tape, all the way until 1986. We bought a used EDM. Leitz TM 20c, with a K&E Autoranger on top. It had to be columated, to coincide with the gun. Then, move it up and down, BEEP —- BEEP BEEEEP! Then, lock the vertical, and tweek (now there’s a term to be careful of!) the vertical, to maximize the signal. It could lie to you, if it were not aimed properly. Some sort of odd bounce around, of light inside the unit. I still have a survey, west of Mena, with a bad dist. Went back to get it, and the landowner ran us off. We traversed into the job, via another direction, and ran us off again. I’d be calling the sheriff, today, but then I was not that way.
So, in 1974 ish, came the more portable kind of EDM’s. We tended to stay behind the curve. Bought a 286 computer, just when 386x was coming out. Then, jumped to 486.
Still, I feel that the field software, is the area, that “Needs improvement” more than any other. (across the board, of brands) I hope to see someday, a large notepad, that the field guy carries. With a complete suite, of fast and easy to use software, to compute, and compare, as you go. It could be bluetoothed, or wifi to the GPS, and or integrated mini total station, with GPS. All on the pole.
It is coming. But, now a days, I don’t want to wait!N
-
One thing that sticks out in my memories as a young “apprentice” was the lack of GLO records we dealt with for a few years. The notes (and plats) for Oklahoma were in New Mexico. Copies could be had for a price and the wait. The Highway Dept. also had most of them on microfiche, but you had to “know” someone to get your mitts on any copies. The men I worked for rarely took the time to obtain them. I cannot imagine surveying a proportional part of a 1/4 section nowadays WITHOUT the notes, but that’s what we did.
I remember digging up a quarter corner to use as control for a 5 or 10 acre boundary that utilized that quarter corner as a property corner. We also had one section corner a half mile north, but nothing south. The first thing we did was flat chain both directions to “check” the 1/4 corner’s position. It apparently was close to a midway point because we never looked back. From the quarter corner we sighted as far away as we could on the fence that headed toward the “center” of section (we never looked there for a corner). I don’t remember the particulars, but the party chief probably laid out the 5 or 10 acres with cardinal (330′ or 660′) distances. That particular PC taught me his style of surveying was to “pull over a sight and measure toward it”.
Although this seems awfully crude, that was what we did in 1968. And the party chief was considered a “good” surveyor.
My don’t things change.
-
My first experience surveying was around 1980 at age 12 helping my father survey wood lots with a 200 foot steel tape and Suunto KB-14 compass. He was educated as a forester, but soon after college started surveying. He wouldn’t let me help until I was strong enough to hold the end of a 200 foot steel tape with enough tension to counter the sag. He would brush ahead of me usually straight down whatever evidence he could find and I’d wait to grab the end of the tape before it went flying past me. I’d then lay the string of the plumb bob over the 200 foot mark on the tape and hold as steady as I could over the point on the ground, which was usually just a piece of orange flagging stuck in the ground with the end of his machette. I would then stand as vertical as I could over the point and he’d get a compass reading back to me to record in his book. It may seem crude by todays standards, but whenever I survey against any of his old compass and tape work it always amazes me how well they check. Latitude? Longitude? What’s that?
-
We used to actually have to go to the clerks office to get a deed or copy of a filed map…. we would write the map numbers we needed and go once a week. now we go online and pull up dozens of maps and deeds a day as needed.
-
50 years ago……. and onwards
Wild T1 inverted image!
Facit hand calculator, Curta if lucky, then came the HP.
First day out with it and I’d reduced the chain measures to horizontal, calculated between some old marks and had my radiation to the corner calculated after traversing Ã¥? the morning and arriving with T1A at the last foresight.
My poor offsider thought he was in for a well earned rest (as was customary) and was somewhat put out when I set-up and said I was ready to peg the corner.
He was used to returning to vehicle whilst I ground the handle and crunched numbers.
That was revolution No 1.
Then the Tellurometer MA100. Backbreaking lump of a device that consumed full size car battery for power.
I don’t think that was missed.
The CA1000. A lightweight brilliant long range device for mountain hopping which meant real physical exertion and all to bring in survey control.
The Guppy. Revolution No 2.
Oddball device but robust and accurate.
2 way radios. Revolution No 3.
Hand signalling sort of lost its art after them. What you could communicate with weird oscillations, gesturing, posturing and sidestepping was nothing short of mind blowing to the uninitiated.
Wild T2000 and it’s black box data recorder. A mean machine, heavy but reliable. Most of the time.
Usher in the modern EDM (Total Station) Lightweight, accurate, dependable, hooked up to a decent data recorder and software and things couldn’t get better.
Which is what each generation of contemporary innovation was thought as.Then there’s photo copiers. Oh!
Those ancient devices requiring toner and liquid and if lucky a copy of the original would roll out the end, still damp, somewhat greyish and if left out in the sun too long the coating would peel and your precious copy is nackered.
And you’d get a copy of an original survey posted, taking a few days to travel 200 miles only to find page xx was missing so the process started again.
Those pens! Brilliant when working but as others here say, a pain to maintain.
We had small fibreglass brushes that removed mistakes on plans so brilliantly and a soft rub with a Biro lid would polish the plan material and restore it almost to original.
I wonder what another 50 years will bring? -
Topo by stadia, kalamazoo field books, 100m wire, 41cV or cx, beer.
-
All hand signals. No other kind of communication beyond yelling distance.
99-foot steel tape. Who needs the full hundred? Can’t you count by 99’s?
Guessing at a workable offset then setting off 100 feet at a time attempting to parallel the apparent boundary (barbed wire/hedge trees/anything else imaginable) then turn a 3-4-5 right angle to get back to the line as close to the point to be measured as possible.
Hand held calculator that would add/subtract/multiply/divide with no square root or even one memory.
Stadia shots with plane table and alidade while standing waist deep in a flooded pond attempting to do a topo to the normal water’s edge.
Similar topo but with 12″ of frozen snow everywhere. Well, maybe everywhere. Had to drive the rod through the white stuff to refusal on every location.
Two-wheel drive extended Ford van that could get stuck any time, any where. -
The way we look for monuments has also changed. I now usually calculate positions and then stake them out with GPS. Then get out the Schoenstedt and look around.
Anyone remember the Aqua Locator box? I used it briefly when my crew didn’t have a real locator. It was better than nothing and you got used it knowing how to work it. I have one just to show people.
-
Holy Cow, post: 351701, member: 50 wrote: …Two-wheel drive extended Ford van that could get stuck any time, any where.
I love it. Probably 1975 or so I used a 1970 Ford Econoline Van for a field vehicle. It could get stuck on wet grass…and did, several times.
One cold and wet spring I buried that van up to the bumper in a flat muddy hay field. A local neighbor brought a Massey Ferguson 35 and a chain to get us out…he got stuck too. Another neighbor brought this big old JD 2 cylinder “johnnie-popper” and eventually pulled us back up to the road, one at a time. This actually took all day. The boss was pissed we hadn’t gotten any cross-sections done while we were stuck…
-
This is my 42nd year surveying.Double chaining,star shots,Wild T1-A,inverted image,reading stadia with inverted image and snow on stadia rod.Run true line or parallel line ( sure kept calcs to a minimum ). No radios,hand signals.Engineers did not ask for a million things for topo design.Topo for roads,done using a rag tape and level ( once baseline established ) . Use Telurometer for large control projects. Out of town work,where usually the work was the most interesting.Simultaneous observations,using Wild T-2’s.My first calculator,HP25 ( still have it,and it works ) Company purchases HP 3800,and we check it out, ” Does this thing really gives us true and accurate distances,it does ! Having to carry HP 3800,it’s battery,legs and instrument, ( felt like a mule ) As Holy Cow mentioned,get 2-wheel van stuck,seemed like every Friday afternoon ?? Let Rodman drive,no more stuck van !! Learning from great party chiefs,who really knew their stuff ( Ernie and Wayne,both brothers ) Get them talking about hockey or curling,lunch was good for a hour.AGA 120,and AGA saleman tells us to purchase AGA Geodat to work with the AGA 120 ( never did work,those salesman )
Setting out using a chain,take a vertical angle where I was going to hold the chain,calculate slope distance needed.Chaining flat on hot sand,do not take the air temperature,but the the sand temperature.Helicopter work,now I am a sidewalk surveyor !! ??? Going down all manholes,luckily no more,I may not fit !!
Still enjoying my career,learning all the new things,such as processing scanning data.
-
I started surveying in 1969 (47 years). I get up and go out and survey every day. I purchase new books and some new editions as they come out, and read them. I get new equipment if it fits the type of work that I do. I don’t see myself retiring.
-
Art S, post: 351734, member: 8983 wrote: … I don’t see myself retiring.
I think that’s pretty common in the industry. I don’t think I’ll ever really “put it down” either until they shut the lid on me.
Soooo…we can deduce two possibilities from this:
1. We love what we do so much we’ll probably never quit. Or…
2. Surveying doesn’t ever really pay enough for anybody to really retire…:-O( I’m bettin’ on number one. 😉 )
-
Yesterday I happened to have lunch at the same place as a former classmate from my Fourth thru Eighth Grade years. He has retired after nearly 40 years with one of the better large manufacturing firms in the area. He asked when I was going to retire. I said, “About three days prior to my funeral.”
-
paden cash, post: 351736, member: 20 wrote: I think that’s pretty common in the industry. I don’t think I’ll ever really “put it down” either until they shut the lid on me.
Soooo…we can deduce two possibilities from this:
1. We love what we do so much we’ll probably never quit. Or…
2. Surveying doesn’t ever really pay enough for anybody to really retire…:-O( I’m bettin’ on number one. 😉 )
I’ll go with #1. also.
-
TI 58 calculator with built in card reader; those wonderful experiences getting gassed out by the blue print machine’s ammonia solution, Rhodes Arc, microfilm being the high end record source, crappy field radios, camping out at remote work sites, wishing for a laser brushing tool …
-
For many years road surveys were traverse and level.
20 metres on straights, 10 on bends.
Long flat roads sectioned every 50 or 100 metres.
I remember one stinking hot summers day with road disappearing off into the distance.
That leg was about 1.5 miles long and the chainman was a shimmering blur somewhere in the landscape ahead.
I guess the important thing was distance which was accurate, line, probably within a foot?
Then came EDM, but designers still wanted 20 metre cross sections.
A job in a valley with steep side slopes where we were expected to extend sections up the valley slopes was where I introduced the designers to the benefits of modern gear.
A chainman just walked along the upper sections and I gave them the information in a series of radiations and calculated elevations.
I think they then related that to the cross sections.
A very tedious way to do topographical surveyThen some sucker had to reduce the levels, rises and falls, add all and check the last RL on page.
Whole days spent sharpening pencil, reducing those wretched level books!Agree on the search for RM’s etc.
Many a hole large enough to bury a sheep (or bigger). Most annoying aspect of that was “the one last go” after digging for hours to find the pipe or other right on the edge of the excavation and just below ground. -
One of my first jobs as a rodman was cross-sectioning 7 miles of rural road with a two-man crew. The party chief ran the level and took notes. I took the business end of a sledge hammer (no handle) where I wired the end of the 100-foot cloth tape to it and placed it in the center of the road. Then I would stretch out the tape and get the breaks. I don’t remember using cones or wearing safety vests in the earlier years like we do now.
-
paden cash, post: 351736, member: 20 wrote: I think that’s pretty common in the industry. I don’t think I’ll ever really “put it down” either until they shut the lid on me.
Soooo…we can deduce two possibilities from this:
1. We love what we do so much we’ll probably never quit. Or…
2. Surveying doesn’t ever really pay enough for anybody to really retire…:-O( I’m bettin’ on number one. 😉 )
I will go with #1 also, I started in 1966 and still get excited every time a new job comes in. Like Art said, I still buy new equipment and went ahead and renewed Civil3d for three more years and have purchased a new TS16i imaging instrument and will be trying to learn Leica Captivate data collection.
Someone asked me when I was going to retire and I replied that I am a surveyor and that is my identity, I hate the thoughts of having to quit surveying.
As far as # 2, last year was the best year that I have ever had and if it continues for another three years, then money should not be a problem.
Ed
NCPLS -
I clearly remember being taught the “required” items to have in the stake bag:
1. 12-place book of tables
2. Curta
3. Bottle of Tabasco sauce
4. Hubs (2×2’s), maybe tacks too, but they were essentialy optional as the plumb bob made a pretty good holeIf you forgot the Tabasco sauce you had to walk back to the truck and get it, now. If you forgot the other stuff you could get it later, there was always a way to fudge things…
Log in to reply.