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Need some advice on instrumentation for layout; Disto 910 or total station
I’m a metal fabricator by trade not a surveying professional so please excuse me if some of my questions are obvious.
I am responsible for laying out mechanical piping systems for a small mechanical company involving chillers, boilers and associated components. Most of our work is removing an existing system and installing new components and piping which has mostly been done with tapes, levels and some lasers. Alot of times I’m working by myself and recently purchased a Leica Disto X4 after having issues with a cheaper laser tape in sunlight.
My process is usually to measure an X and Y distance of each connection point or feature to the building wall or some other reference in the building and pull out a rotary laser to measure elevations. This seems to work alright but it would be nice to eliminate some steps and have X,Y & Z measured for each point that I could view as a DXF in CAD.
My Disto X4 if added to a DST360 base is said to be capable of that. The X4 is usually on a small prism pole (which I want to keep for traditional measurements) and I’m looking at purchasing either a Disto 910 or a used reflectorless total station to use for marking points to record manually or send to CAD for reviewing numbers off site to do the piping layout and having any obstructions or building features marked out.
Here are my questions
- Is there any advantage to the Disto 910 over the X4 with the additional DST360 base? Have done some research and all I get is the standard product video measuring a room for wallpaper or cabinets.
- From the description of the 910 it shows points mapped out in 3D on CAD. Since I do not have an existing cad file to import into the total station would I still be able to mark the floor of a room as an X,Y,Z “zero reference” and all the points of piping connections would be shown in 3D when downloaded to CAD or will it just be a list of coordinates that I would have to draw out based on those coordinates?
- Most times when mapping out an existing system the pipes are still in use so I cant measure to exact center with the point to point feature of the Disto. Currently with the mini prism pole on my X4 I can place it on the center of a pipe or valve to get the X & Y measurements. If using a reflectorless total station could I measure to the outside of the pipe and “offset” the measurement to get to the center of the pipe or would a small prism held on center be a better alternative?
- Can a reflectorless total station be aligned to the room and perform layout tasks like marking the corners of a pump or chiller base or is that only capable with a robotic total station?
Attached are some common layouts of systems and the measurements I usually take.
I have never used a total station and am relying on the professionals of this forum to inform me if it would be an appropriate tool for my needs or too much.
Thanks,
Chris T.
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5 Replies
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After some quick googling, I would say your X4 and the DST 360 would be a good combo – Don’t think you need to upgrade to the 910. The interesting thing about the DST 360 base is it is actually an “active” device – it receives power from the disto and appears to have angle and inclinometer sensors built in (that’s how I read the blurb), so it works with, and adds to the capabilities of the disto. The end result is you would have your xyz coordinates on the disto, which can then be exported into the leica app or into CAD.
The 910 has the angle sensors built in, so it’s a more powerful unit – therefore the mounting base available for it is actually simpler and passive – its only function is to hold the unit steady and allow for fine adjustment.
Of course a total station will be far more accurate, but is less user friendly and more daunting to a non surveyor. You might look at a 2nd hand Leica Builder series – they were generally reflectorless only and I’m sure the onboard software is fairly straightforward as they were geared towards builders, not surveyors. You don’t need a robotic by the sounds of what you’re doing.
You might though actually benefit from having a gun that will shoot to a prism, as well as reflectorless – if you go for a total station. Reason being that if you are shooting in an area congested with lots of pipes and whatnot, prism mode is more selective – it will only return a distance from the prism – no chance of the reflectorless beam bouncing of something else that is partially in the way and giving a bad distance.
Well I tackled some of your questions anyway…If you add that base to what you already have you should have a good system – and the data can absolutely go into CAD and make you a digital plan – But…
A total station is far better and more versatile, (though obviously more expensive and harder to learn.)
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Positional tolerance will be key; in making your decision. Some total stations are more accurate than others.
The measurements from your total station will be subject to the errors of the set up and orientation; while making direct measurements with the disto will be subject to accumulated error.
There will always be error in measurement; it’s just how much will you be willing to tolerate, is the question.
Dougie
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will! -
I suggest you review the Topcon LN100. I have many clients using this instrument as you describe. I provide them with consulting, training and support.
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I agree with what you said about the base being intelligent. I attempted to contact Leica to ask them some questions about the DST360 vs the S910 and have had no response from either the online form or calling them in Georgia.
Called the place I purchased the prism poles and other accessories for my X4 and he said they rent instruments if I wanted to test one out to see if it’s what I’m looking for, planning on stopping in this week to see if he has one of the models you mentioned.
About shooting to a prism in addition to reflectorless I have had to shoot between pipes or components to get a measurement and have wondered what the “diameter” of the spot being measured is and how close I can get before the measurement is false. I’ve been about 2″ away from obstructions and got a good read with the X4 but l think the prism would be more beneficial in really crowded energy plant rooms.
Have been doing some more research on the file types total stations can export and the few results that turned up for various older models seem to only be a text file with returned coordinates requiring post processing where the Disto can output a DXF file ready to view on site with the tablet and Leica applications.
Guess I have to weigh out if the quick set-up and CAD export of the Disto or the additional features of the total station would be more beneficial.
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Very true, I always find myself double checking everything since I’m currently measuring multiple points from multiple spots. I’d like to be able to set up in one or two spots to measure everything needed.
I believe my most difficult task initially would be figuring how to realign and pick up my first station point after moving to a new spot. Although having a machinist and precision background it can’t be that bad.
My layout is usually down to a 1/16″ but although I can provide the best possible drawings, the fabrication shop and installation crew usually manages get something wrong.
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