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Microstation
Anybody use it?
There are so many options with it I’m not sure what I need.
We will be working on dams and roads in my new job. We will be doing the surveying for them and will have to update the plans as changes are made throughout the projects.
(when I start Monday) We are working on a dam project. We are anchoring a dam into bedrock by drilling down through it and putting in anchor cables into bedrock. So as we do this we have to update the plans to show where and how deep we went is my understanding. I’ll have more details Monday. I was hoping to get some idea as to what we need before then so I don’t go in completely unprepared. We will need the ability do import pnodes, aerials, topos, and things like that on a coordinate system.
My boss wants me to learn it and wants me to figure out what programs he needs to buy for me.
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31 Replies
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John,
With Microstation alone you could do what you asked “import nodes, aerials, topos, and things like that on a coordinate system”. But I suggest using InRoads Survey or Power InRoads, both are Bently products. This will make it much easier. If you are working for a gov’t agency or large client, request their preference file (*.XIN). This will help you to conform to their cad standards. InRoads Survey is great for Topo mapping, not so easy for cogo. A steep learning curve for coordinate geometry.
Drop me an email or call me if you need any assistance.
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Microstation is CAD. By itself it has very little survey or civil design functionality. Like Lee Green said, you may also want to get Inroads as it is the handshake design software.
However, ACAD C3D and Microstation play together fairly well these days. I do much of my work in ACAD C3D and then export to Microstation format when needing to be compatable with CalTrans DOT standards. It works good for me but I’ve been using both for many years and its mostly 2nd nature for me.
I do recall, being originally an ACAD guy, that I didn’t like learning Microstation at first because the basic commands were considerably different from ACAD. I know people who have had the opposite experience, in that they had trouble going from Microstation to ACAD because of the difference in basic CAD commands. -
Bentley MicroStation is what a large number of state DOT’s use for CADD and as mentioned, it is very substantially different than AutoCAD; Clearcut and Lee Green are spot on in my opinion as you will also need Bentley InRoads which is a separate application but behaves as an add-in.
For the record, I do not find InRoads to be very user-friendly especially for surveyors; it is primarily geared for highway engineers. Oftentimes I have found it easier to do COGO on my HP50 calculator than using InRoads to do the same. I also do NOT care for the way it seemingly forces you to hold curve PI’s as sacrosanct (there are ways around it but I find them to be unnecessarily complex); for highway R/W retracement purposes it is a real pain IMO. This is especially true with spirals. Our previous software- CAiCE (bought out by Autodesk!)- was miles ahead in this regard.
However, I will +1 the topo import and edit functions; they are fine once you get used to the way Bentley does it.
Just my opinion. I’ve used both Bentley products for a number of years now.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found. -
I use Microstation with Power Geopak V8i every day. I prefer it over C3D and Carlson. There is a bit of learning curve but much easier and far more survey friendly than C3D. It has all the network adjustment programs built in so no need for StarNet, TBC, etc.
I haven’t used InRoads but I have heard that it is less Survey friendly than Geopak.
Your biggest hurdle will be getting used to not having the command line, and no paper space. Microsation is mostly drop down and lots of right clicks. Once you use it and become familiar with it you will not go back to C3D, especially if you use lots of aerials, LiDAR, and mapping features.
DOTs use Microstation for a reason…
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StLSurveyor, post: 351455, member: 7070 wrote: I use Microstation with Power Geopak V8i every day. I prefer it over C3D and Carlson. There is a bit of learning curve but much easier and far more survey friendly than C3D. It has all the network adjustment programs built in so no need for StarNet, TBC, etc.
I haven’t used InRoads but I have heard that it is less Survey friendly than Geopak.
Your biggest hurdle will be getting used to not having the command line, and no paper space. Microsation is mostly drop down and lots of right clicks. Once you use it and become familiar with it you will not go back to C3D, especially if you use lots of aerials, LiDAR, and mapping features.
DOTs use Microstation for a reason…
Have used MicroStation for over 20 years, on Army COE and OhioDOT projects, as well as teaching introductory CAD course. As others have mentioned the transition from AutoCAD to Bentley products is an aggravation. However, both are powerful CAD tools that take time to master.
Both the USACE and DOT projects were 3D and we used a CoGo/survey add on that is no longer available. In ACAD all files are 3D while MicroStation has both 3D and 2D templates (seed files) in both imperial and metric formats. In the imperial format both U.S. Survey feet and international feet are available with a little setup.
While paper space is not available the reference file capability is superior to ACAD XREF and can be used to produce the same (or better) results. Coordinate import/export from comma delimited text (csv) files can place points and cells (think ACAD blocks) in MicroStation without additional software.
As Lee mentioned above “If you are working for a gov’t agency or large client, request their preference file (*.XIN).” And ask about any additional CAD standards you need to comply with. If you are working on US Army Corps of Engineers projects the [COLOR=#00ccff]CAD/BIM Technology Center for Facilities, Infrastructure and Environment[/COLOR] will be a REQUIRED RESOURCE for CAD standards, template/seed files, blocks/cells and other resources.
If you are complying with West Virginia Department of Transportation (WVDOT) standards their [COLOR=#00ccff]WVDOT Publications page[/COLOR] provides similar resources under their CADD standards link.
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I have flopped back and forth between MicroStation and AutoCAD over the last twenty-five years. At times during that period I used both. If you insist on using both I can tell you will be proficient at neither.
I’ve used MS strictly for the last five or six years. Having used both over the years gives me a little insight in the history of both as they have developed. They are truly two distinct animals that try really hard to be just alike.
My personal preference is MS. I say that because of my experience with it. Starting from “out-of-the-box” with Bentley, having nothing but acad experience might be a little frustrating for a while. But once accustomed to the software, I think most folks prefer Bentley.
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Currently using Microstation XM for CAD work, most of my contours are done in Acad Land Desktop then I export this to dxf format and open this in Microstation. I have been usign Microstation variants since the 1990s starting with the SE version. I am for at home in Microstation than in Acad so this is reason why I use their products.
One thing I can say for Microstation software is that they can stand the test of time. Recently when my XM version started acting up due to a corrupt license file, I had to revert back to the SE/J version. Suprise surprise, no problem installing this on my win7 laptop. It was also super fast on the i5.
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FrancisH, post: 351479, member: 10211 wrote: One thing I can say for Microstation software is that they can stand the test of time. Recently when my XM version started acting up due to a corrupt license file
That doesn’t sound like standing the test of time to me.
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The license file became corrupted not from my pc but from the server on which it was stored.The server hard drive was on the way out so all files got affected.
The SE/J version was from the late 1990s , so it was more than 15 years old? It was installed on a win7 laptop. If you can get an Autocad v 97 or 2000 to run on win7 then good luck with that. -
leegreen, post: 351448, member: 2332 wrote: John,
With Microstation alone you could do what you asked “import nodes, aerials, topos, and things like that on a coordinate system”. But I suggest using InRoads Survey or Power InRoads, both are Bently products. This will make it much easier. If you are working for a gov’t agency or large client, request their preference file (*.XIN). This will help you to conform to their cad standards. InRoads Survey is great for Topo mapping, not so easy for cogo. A steep learning curve for coordinate geometry.
Drop me an email or call me if you need any assistance.
If you are just need survey functionality, then I would suggest PowerSurvey which is just Microsation with survey portion of Inroads.
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StLSurveyor, post: 351455, member: 7070 wrote: I use Microstation with Power Geopak V8i every day. I prefer it over C3D and Carlson. There is a bit of learning curve but much easier and far more survey friendly than C3D. It has all the network adjustment programs built in so no need for StarNet, TBC, etc.
I haven’t used InRoads but I have heard that it is less Survey friendly than Geopak.
Your biggest hurdle will be getting used to not having the command line, and no paper space. Microsation is mostly drop down and lots of right clicks. Once you use it and become familiar with it you will not go back to C3D, especially if you use lots of aerials, LiDAR, and mapping features.
DOTs use Microstation for a reason…
DOTs use Microstation because Bentley gave it to DOTs for free…obligating subcontractors to go with Bentley…no?
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lsitnj, post: 352123, member: 7876 wrote: DOTs use Microstation because Bentley gave it to DOTs for free…obligating subcontractors to go with Bentley…no?
I worked for a DOT in ’95 when we changed over from the Intergraph (old ‘Clipper’ stations) to MicroStation for the PCs. We bought 64 licenses (with the dongles needed at that time). They were not free. At the time, they weren’t even cheap. I can’t remember what the total PO amount, but I think it was around $900 a pop.
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paden cash, post: 352132, member: 20 wrote: I worked for a DOT in ’95 when we changed over from the Intergraph (old ‘Clipper’ stations) to MicroStation for the PCs. We bought 64 licenses (with the dongles needed at that time). They were not free. At the time, they weren’t even cheap. I can’t remember what the total PO amount, but I think it was around $900 a pop.
In the early 1990s the company I worked for got a surveying contract with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Started with manual drafted maps and transitioned quickly to Intergraph/MicroStation files being required. As I recall the price for MicroStation was about $50 per seat less than the current version of AutoCAD. Paden’s number above sounds about right for a large volume purchase. Of course that would not include the additional software (Inroads/Geopack) required to do highway/civil design.
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Back in the day I used eaglepoint in both autocad and microstation. It was a sweet deal. Same survey interface for both software packages. Then after I got it how we wanted it I would convert to inroads or geopak. That took some learning at first. That was a good 10 years ago.
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Dallas Morlan, post: 352137, member: 6020 wrote: … Of course that would not include the additional software (Inroads/Geopack) required to do highway/civil design.
They didn’t get on the Inroads band wagon until the late ’90s. Up until that time we used a hulking dinosaur called C.E.A.L. (Civil Engineering Analytical Library), along with WildSoft for our surveying needs. CEAL ran on Unix and our MS ran on something called OS/2 if I remember right and the swapping between them created horrible and terrifying results. We called it the “digital blender” because there was really no telling what might come out after you pressed “go”.
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makerofmaps, post: 352139, member: 9079 wrote: Back in the day I used eaglepoint in both autocad and microstation. It was a sweet deal. Same survey interface for both software packages. Then after I got it how we wanted it I would convert to inroads or geopak. That took some learning at first. That was a good 10 years ago.
I could fill up a stadium with people that miss Eagle Point….
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paden cash, post: 352147, member: 20 wrote: I could fill up a stadium with people that miss Eagle Point….
*raises hand* Add another one to the stadium.
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paden cash, post: 352147, member: 20 wrote: I could fill up a stadium with people that miss Eagle Point….
Really? I never liked the software.
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Zapper, post: 352307, member: 6470 wrote: *raises hand* Add another one to the stadium.
We’re still using it, even though they aren’t updating it, they still support the license server we use.
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One of the reasons that DOT and the Corps addopted Mircostation was it’s ability to handle LARGE files without a lot of expensive speacalized software. When I first started learning Microstation, I had a 5 Meg 3-D autocad file that I converted to Microstation. The resulting file was 0.9 megs and was very easy to work on on an 8 megahertz IBM AT (286) cmputer. The Autocad version took 30 minutes to load or regerate and a snap took close to a minute. If you want to learn Micostation you can do it but there has to be a want to. I have had several CADD technicians work for me that were always complaining that they needed Autocad and that Microstation couldn’t do that. The truth was that they did not know how to do it in Microstation. They all just moved on. We have had several Insultants over the years try to provide us Microstion drawing file that were converted from Autocad. It didn’t work and now one of the requirements to be elgible to do work for us is having Microstation and Inroads and tecfhnicians trained to use it. About once a year they will try to slip something by that has been converted. When I catch it, I just wad the job back up and tell them to fix it. The bosses are usually pretty upset with their people for trying to slip one by on us.
Once you learn how to do the very basics in Microstation, zoom, pan, change level, change color, place line, just set a goal of learning 2 or 3 new commands each day and pretty soon you will know how to make it walk talk and cook breakfast. Just think about how many commands you use in your current CADD program. There are lots of good training videos online that can help and you can do some inperson taining if necessary. A good resource for training I have found is http://leegreen.com/.
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