I'm terrifiedPosted by ianw58-2 on April 10, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I just received the following staking request in an email:
Control Points for Roadway Package:
Company X requires a variety of control in order to “localize” our GPS equipment. Please provide control points with northing & easting’s, and elevation at approximately 100’ – 150’ spacing as shown on the attached sketch.
Other than the name of the company making the request and the project, you know as much as I do!
BTW – the project is construction of a two lane road with some hairy cuts and fills. This is not an easy road to construct. In fact, we’ve been scratching our heads on how to stake the bloody thing!
Am I right to be concerned?
What would you do?
How would you proceed?
(This could have gone under Construction/Mining or even Legal Issues…)
- 32 Replies
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm
$450 per point, 8 point minimum.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 2:21 pm
No worries about the type of equipment they’re using, the training they’ve had, the experience or knowledge they have? No problems with aiding an abetting? No fear of the professional liability?
I couldn’t care less about the staking part. I’m actually a big proponent of GPS for mass grading – as long as a licensed surveyor is in charge of the set up, maintenance and QC/QA during the project.
This just seems like they’re asking me to hand over a loaded 45 and think nothing of it!
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Set the control and make sure you are good to go. You liability ends with the control you set. What they do with it after is on them.
Be VERY explicit on your contract and keep VERY good correspondence records. Send them everything in regular mail and scanned tie/GPS sheets via e-mail so you have one more copy for proof if they screw up and try to blame you. E-mail is a great thing since everything is on servers all over the world pretty much forever.
We have done this a few times with no problems.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 2:42 pm
> We have done this a few times with no problems.
same here. they are not trying to find someone to blame. they know their guys are button pushers and they need a surveyor to set it up. contracting you is cheaper than keeping a PLS on staff. do good and you may get some asbuilt work out of it too.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 2:53 pm
If you’re really terrified you should just say no!
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 3:03 pm
I’m sure Thad will chime in with his machine control approach. It could be the answer, given the right contractor
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 3:30 pm
then mark r and tim will tell us how the only thing we have to fear is O himself
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 3:38 pm
If you carefully disclaim, then why not do it?
If I stake out a taco stand am I responsible if someone get food poisoning?
Sorry, that was an over the top analogy.
Your contract is to establish control, and if you state on the deliverable that you are only standing behind the integrity of the control your are setting and are not implying any warentee of suitablility for any specific subsequent use.
It is very common to add such hold harmless clauses to contracts. CYOB.
At least they are seeking surveyors, some do not.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 3:48 pm
The only problem would be if you can’t set tight control. Tight control and you will have zero problems.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm
> I just received the following staking request in an email:
> Control Points for Roadway Package:
> Company X requires a variety of control in order to “localize” our GPS equipment. Please provide control points with northing & easting’s, and elevation at approximately 100’ – 150’ spacing as shown on the attached sketch.
> Other than the name of the company making the request and the project, you know as much as I do!
> BTW – the project is construction of a two lane road with some hairy cuts and fills. This is not an easy road to construct. In fact, we’ve been scratching our heads on how to stake the bloody thing!
> Am I right to be concerned?
> What would you do?
> How would you proceed?
> (This could have gone under Construction/Mining or even Legal Issues…)
If I recall properly and this is a California Project, the company must have a PLS on staff or must hire a California firm to do the construction staking.
If my control is tight, redundant and I can prove both, I would not be either scared nor worried.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 5:25 pm
What is the difference between setting control for this and other projects that you have set control on?
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Are they using machine control software? Most of the bigger company’s building stuff like that don’t need stakeout! It’s all GPS or EDM controlled. But what they still need is control.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 6:14 pm
I provided control for machine grading – will never do it again! The out-of-state grading contractor apparently created a surface on his own, possibly from a preliminary set of drawings, graded the site, and left. When we went in to stake improvements we found the grade to be all over the place high, low, all screwed up. We were blamed for mis-staking the improvements even though we could prove that ALL of our work was fine because we were on the site. The departed grading contractor was never even contacted. It did not develop into a lawsuit, but it did totally destroy years-old relationships between a number of local firms – very bad situation and lots of bills that were never paid. I’m not terrified of ever providing control again, I just won’t ever do it…
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm
That sounds about right to me, ftt.
Back in California, this would be one of the types of jobs we would occasionally “bid’ on.
And, as Snoop indicated, high liability always means extra careful work, with double checking, and subsequently high prices.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 7:14 pm
I bet it graded nicely to the model!! 😉
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 9:04 pm
Well, we’re going to provide the control data we already have established for this project.
I’ll be headed up to the site tomorrow to meet with the contractor and go over the use of the control and set some guidelines for the project.
It turns out that we will maintain control and provide a QA/QC function to back them up.
Thanks for all your comments and the time you took to respond. The collective knowledge here it really second to none!
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Does the decision comply with the BPELS Melchior letter of 2006, i.e. does the GC have a licensee on staff?
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Did he forge a Surveying License with the Birth Certificate? If so be very scared, he’ll blame you for his blunders.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 10:31 pm
Technically, Jim, this is “not” in California. It’s on neighboring sovereign land.
- MemberApril 10, 2012 at 10:34 pm
On other projects, I am the one who uses the control and understands its use. I this case, someone else, whom I do not know, will be using it to do something I don not know he is qualified to do.
In short, I have no problem loading my 44Mag and blowing four or five sets of rounds. I have a real problem with loading a single chamber and then leaving than lying around for anyone to pick up and use. This feels EXACTLY like that.
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