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How do you operate ?
Just wondering. How you do business. I have seen the pros and cons to military to government and private sector performing different types of surveys throughout my time. After a project do any of you take the time to write down or discuss the project in a way with all personal involved?
Say you had a large project so you make a plan. A plan of action to how things will be done and organized which tools methods seem to be the best. Then you execute on that plan. As the project progresses in reality we have to adapt become flexible and make adjustments to said tools and methods but the job gets done the good the bad its over and off to a new project. Does anyone take that time formally or informally to bring in the iman crew chief project coordinator manager etc. to kinda say ok what worked what didn??t work how do we do it next time that will save time money and stress. I call it an after action report. Every mission AKA project we did this and government often does at the worka bee level. It is usually compiled and brought out the next mission project that has similarities to try and head off the unexpected issue and not planned for issues on the next job. I know on private sector side its get in get out and move on. But would this not be a valuable process to use or would it be a non starter for discussion at your company.
We had a slack day after Christmas doing inventory checking equipment etc. I brought in one of my crew chiefs and was going over a project phase that is about to end and we will be starting the next phase soon which will be very similar to this phase. I showed him the issues I had to deal with for simple little things like naming files codes comps etc. how the office side sees things. I asked him what can I do to make the next phase easier on him . It took a bit to get him to discuss. He is one that whatever you want i will make it work. Love him for that and he is good. But once I got him talking and got his ideas we kinda came up with some win win options for both sides. This was 30 minutes tops. My boss heard this and said hey you wrote an after action report and cced me for the main office on a job i did out of town. It was a small email on tools needed and things that could have been laid out clearer. It was a last minute thing that popped up literally right before Christmas and I volunteered as most where already on vacation. I had questions like do we really need this because it is not changing and this would save x amount of time. Tools like boat paddles and such we hardly ever use so things that should have been checked prior. So a list as well for next time which will be coming to hopefully make it easier on next crew. He said he liked the idea and wanted us to possibly implement this on projects and file it so we can keep getting better. So do y??all have something similar in place. Or not necessary. Ideas opinions all welcome even criticism because heck I am here to learn so beat me up and make me better.
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20 Replies
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As a solo surveyor I talk to myself a lot. All done internally.
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Understand completely. Invited myself to the office Christmas party, then forgot to show up, so it never happened.
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I talk to myself a lot, too. I also thought it was mostly internal. I have learned that a fair bit is also out loud.
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I talk to myself a lot, too.
I quit doing that when I started calling myself an a**hole. ????
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I have a t-shirt that says, “of course I talk to myself, I need expert advise occasionally too”.
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@fairbanksls Same here. Solo practicianer with 3 employees. Me, myself and I.
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Well I talk to myself maybe I should be solo operator as well. Lol. But I am not that smart yet.
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I’m curious for your solo guys – do you advertise or let the word of mouth be your referral? I have had really good luck via referral and tell clients “don’t refer me to someone unless you’d trust them to pay your grandmother back.” That gets laughs yet most understand & respect it. But with land development slowing down, I’m wondering if I should advertise? I have a web domain registered but have not set up a website yet as I don’t want to list my contact info (my cell phone especially) or receive bad reviews on google for not being able to respond in a timely manner to impatient people. It’s just me doing all the work (both in the field & the office/drafting plus a lot of engineering). I have access to a few potential draftsmen (one is a retired PLS) that might want to do it part time, but I’m not sure I could give them what they’d want in compensation or have enough work to keep them busy and justify the expense of another PC & software subscriptions. I definitely prefer not to work with commercial construction GC’s whenever possible as most just want to beat you to death on your price but pick your brain for value engineering – others say they’re ready & tell you to jump on something only to be months behind themselves
So far, everything I have done has been by word of mouth & I’ve never had a client upset yet – roughly 2.5 years into this by myself with 1 year doing it full time (some clients that disagreed with my methods or hours but eventually understood the reasoning behind them). My bread and butter has definitely been land development this past decade – planning, grading/erosion control, water, sewer & stormwater design/permitting with a lot of experience in heavy civil construction too – machine control, construction staking & utility as-builts included. Just not sure if there’s a way to get Google or other search engines to really clue in on just the key words like that if you go online with a website – most people just google “engineer” or “surveyor” unless they’re development savvy. Boundary surveys, plot plans & lot erosion control plans typically seem good fillers when things slow up. But around here, some will do them for rock bottom (we’re talking maybe a $600 map on a couple acres for at least a days worth of site surveying or permit package that took them at least a day or more to do plus the expense of prints). Just can’t compete with stuff that cheap in my mind
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As a solo surveyor I talk to myself a lot. All done internally.
This where having multiple personalities combined with OCD makes for some lively conversations with one’s selves.
Willy -
Of course I think this is a good idea. However, I “literally” share the same military background as you. As much as I think all of the “I talk to myself” responses didn’t offer much in answering your question, it did bring up a valid point. I too am a one stop shop. (with my son working along side of me on almost all projects) What I’ve realized is that I’ve posed the same AAR question to myself. However, it seems that the nature of “it just being me” hinders me from formally doing an AAR. I’ve found that if I don’t take the time to write those “lessons learned” down, I tend to forget them. The is especially true for the “little corrections” that could make future jobs go smoother. As for the big “gotchas”, I tend to remember and correct those rather quickly. So, doing a written AAR after every job, no matter how brief, is definitely a goal for me year.
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@firestix oh the talk to myself stuff doesn??t bother me. It would be difficult to do this as a one man band. I have a notebook I keep on farm. Seems every time i go to do something i need something else. So my list grows but sure has saved me time during hay season. I figured some larger firms folks would be on here or midsize shops that may or may not do something similar. Its always the little things that seem to bite you on a job. Very seldom does someone leave the instrument now days. I know it happens but a dc is more likely or like old days dc cable or extra batteries lol.
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A problem for me is knowing too much sometimes. Have a current job to create a new tract that is bounded on the west by three tracts, bounded on the north by another tract, bounded partly on the east by another tract and bounded on the south by the section line. Here’s my problem. In 2004 to 2007 timeframe I had conducted a route survey for a planned street improvement project along that south section line and the west section line. My memory told me to be wary as the tracts adjoining to the west and the one to the north are all metes and bounds descriptions that I had to solve years ago. None of those tracts had ever been surveyed, so I had to follow the order in which they had been created along with several others along that west line. I have spent a few hours attempting to find my full set of notes from 2004 forward without finding them. I have found the final data from 2007, thankfully. The descriptions I wrote for numerous easements saved me. A big thing my memory provided me was that there were existing bars in 2004 seventeen feet apart and both claiming to be the true south quarter corner. The street improvement wiped them both out. Today, one can find the wrong one has been replaced, probably because it is in line with a fence. The other GOTCHA is that the east line of the tracts to the west are parallel to the west section line while the west line of the tract to the east is perpendicular to the south section line.
Meanwhile, if ABC surveyors had been called upon to do the job, they would have sent out a fellow with instructions to use what is the wrong south quarter monument and assume both sides of the subject tract are the same bearing. Wham, bam, done. Everyone is fat and happy with an incorrect survey.
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@holy-cow I miss the PLSS work. Talking about a green horn coming from surveying in mostly metes bounds area of TN because it has both but that??s another story. I get to plss as a eyeman new very little about plss . Go on a job that we had to set corners on and a quarter corner or section corner I can??t remember now . Anyway i knew everything looked square and thought just how easy it would be. My crew chief set up the old sdr33 job and we keyed in all the coordinates to set. The survey itself was already done just setting corners and that one corner. Data collector fries i mean bit the dust while we are sitting in truck. He said got to come back tomorrow. I said no way. I have a 32sII. Well i drew a sketch comped up the corners for the lot and started staking. He said we cannot do this has to be in data collector. Well i did everything right except the main corner or quarter corner. I used lat departure instead of using the computed coordinates because I thought its square so opposite or adjacent etc. well it was like you explain so my computed point thankfully missed around half a tenth from where surveyor needed it set i was just lucky. My math was right my math was just not the correct method. I soon got schooled in single and double proportions and dealing with the boundary by more than math. It was hard ground i was dreading having to pull that rebar. My crew chief laughed but he was young like me and had never really worked without a data collector. You guys have a lot to determine for sure. Weighting evidence vs bearings and distance and then the blue manual guidance. So much to learn and apply. Here in this state i am told a fence has nothing to do with a boundary line. I am not sold on that but it is in my notes to research. Out west and other states that fence might be all you have as evidence to get you going. Now back to crunching numbers. Lol. I bet you have forgot more about surveying than i will ever know.
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As a solo surveyor I talk to myself a lot. All done internally.
I use 2 way radios. I got tired of yelling all the time. I started using hand signals, but people thought I was dancing and laughed at me.
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But would this not be a valuable process to use or would it be a non starter for discussion at your company.
Of course it would be valuable. And of course it would be a non-starter because the 30, 60, or 90 minutes on the timecard is infinitely more visible than the amount of money it saved.
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@bstrand time is money for sure. Lets say it was an hour and you bill out i am making numbers up but $200. So it cost you $200 say once a month as overhead. For one big project a month. Now lets say a crew brakes a paddle but finished the job just in time. No cost no meeting so you made $200. Next month your next job needs the boat and paddle no one said anything about paddle everything is still in boat. Crew drives 2 hours to site. Gets set up realizes paddle is broke. So now 1/2 hour into town looking for a place to buy paddle. But the iman did you a favor while crew chief was driving to town and found place so exactly 30 minutes to store. 15 minutes tops in store and 30 minutes back to site. You can bill paddle and time to job i guess. But if you didn??t it cost you more than the $200 or 1 hour billing time. Its like planning or preparing add that in when feasible on the front end. But i do understand reality. When i get told the numbers of billable vs overhead every month it can get scary for sure. I don??t see it on every job especially the consistent jobs. But more for larger or special projects you use to grow into new markets clients on. The regular jobs you could just do a session once a month. Have to find that balance. I have seen on government side where my time card was more hours in meetings than work. Literally sometimes meetings about the meeting no joke. And a lot of unnecessary personal in meetings. But going to meetings made people feel important. Thank goodness it got shut down some. But the extremes can be both ways. I like your comment though it??s realistic and I am trying to find that sweet spot. One to improve my team myself and the company. This forum is probably one of the best places to get ideas and opinions from different perspectives and experiences. Getting those into an implementation is a different story though. Appreciate the information. It has helped more than you know.
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Of course it would be valuable. And of course it would be a non-starter because the 30, 60, or 90 minutes on the timecard is infinitely more visible than the amount of money it saved.
When someone gets to the upper management level, I’m convinced that they are taken away to receive brain surgery from some demented doctor/accountant hybrid creature – because all of a sudden the ability to evaluate long-term compounding benefits versus short-term gains is gone.
“You mean I have to spend five dollars today in order to save five thousand every year for the next several years? We can’t possibly afford it!“
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman -
bet you have forgot more about surveying than i will ever know.
I hear these words and think them a lot…
sounds like you’re getting close to your test, and sounds like you’re ready to me!
I feel kind of lost since my FS exam victory because I’m sure I could have passed the PS test then too….but I’m back to the field grind now and struggling to stay sharp as I was at that point…
THRAC OVER
you got this!
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@jitterboogie Yes still grilling down. I am not as worried about the PS exam honestly. It is the state specific one here. As i have not been exposed enough to all the common knowledge information yet. And it is hard to prepare as i hear things and ask questions i write them down and research. Unfortunately not every surveyor agrees on some topics so its flip a quarter i guess lol. I was hoping at the new company i would get exposed more doing more of the drafting and plan sets. But we are so busy i am doing letters to clients and crunching numbers more than drafting and checking of the list of requirements so far. I will get it sooner or later. I always take a pocket full of blow money so i can buy more discussion fluid at meetings and try and steer the conversation in a way i can get other surveyors to talk. I often have to put my foot in my mouth on purpose to get the debate going lol. But i am learning from those discussions. If kidnapping was not against the law i would do that once a week and feed them of course. But I would have them each one on one to build my knowledge base lol.
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@rover83 that is so true. I can tell what type of personal a crew chief worked under by asking about equipment and supplies. If his first answer is i am good. I bet my paycheck he doesn??t have what all he needs. Simple things like extra markers. I don??t need a crew driving to a store to buy a magic marker to finish a job. It??s always the little things. After Christmas i pulled a 3 hour stunt. We and I was in on it. Pulled everything I mean everything out the back of a truck that had been passed around. We went item by item. Putting it back in. Lets see just some of the things we found. Enough snake chaps and waders to supply 4 2 man crews easily. Range poles extra rods a couple p nut prisms. Extra tribrachs etc. my new crew chief has not had a chance to go through any of it and well now we know what he lacks and what he has. I almost have enough working equipment to start another crew. A bunch will be for parts in a pinch. But yes surveyors are like farmers. I will buy a tractor but skimp on a 24$ hammer lol. Why I know better its just the accounting side keeping up with the little money items I guess.
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