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Frustrating ongoing procedure battle
This topic fits both PLSSia and virtually any other kind of survey work. It boils down to only accepting a portion of found monuments. It doesn’t seem to matter who set the monument or during what point in history.
In common section breakdown in PLSSia there are the four corners of a section, the four quarter corners that in a standard section were theoretically set at half distance and on a straight line between section corners and, finally, the center corner which was to be determined per whichever set of special instructions were in force at the time of the original survey by Government contractors. What is the most common method for the center corner is that it be where lines connecting the quarter corners intersect.
On any given survey we do, we rarely are using any original monuments. In rare cases, there may be several, but, never are they all original monuments. That means the others we find have been set by prior surveyors using their best judgement. From time to time we find center corner monuments for which we have a record of who set it and when. Other times they seem to magically appear. They may or may not be found at the intersection of lines connecting the conglomeration of quarter corner monuments found. But, in my part of the world, there are commonly found fences that adhere to the lines ending at the monument found.
The first problem comes when a current surveyor is working with an aliquot part of the section, but, that surveyor nevers attempts to go to the calculated center corner to look for a monument or any information supporting a solution. The magic of electronics has allowed us to calculate the “perfect” location and then use that to calculate the “perfect” division into smaller aliquot parts. This is where the clamity comes to a head. Other prior surveyors many times have already set monuments along the lines they determined were the correct boundaries for aliquot parts or lots and blocks tied to those boundaries. The current surveyor then discovers, but ignores, the monuments that do not match his perfect solution.
A current example from my own work is the northwest corner of the east half of the southeast quarter of a section 22. A one and one-quarter ID pipe was placed in the 1950’s by the County Surveyor at that location. The monuments at the east quarter corner and center corner have been obliterated and reset more than once, each, over the passage of 70 some years. The pipe is still firmly in place. A line connecting the center corner and east quarter corner passes about one inch to the north of the center of the pipe and the midpoint falls about nine inches to the east. The surveyor from last year never looked for the pipe and ran with a calculated corner at the “perfect” location. This introduces a triangle being nine inches wide on the north end to zero at the south end over a half mile. That’s nothing to get land owners upset, generally, but it makes all of us look like a collective bunch of dummies. Our “golden” boundary lines move every time some other surveyor comes along.
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6 Replies
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Not only C1/4 but established 1/16th monuments also. They all count.
Be careful of imperial entanglements they seem to only love the math.
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Keep teaching. I am studying now. I do miss the PLSS. I miss the hunt for a monument or other evidence way more than the math. I have a lot to learn for sure. I might not ever survey in a PLSS state again but I have good memories in my early years learning and reading about it.
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The same dilemma comes up in lot and block work on a regular basis, as well. This is especially true when referring to where the block line/street line is located. In most of the cities where I have worked over the decades each block is sort of in a world of its own, except for when evidence in one block has been used to move into the next block due to there being no other monuments on which to rely. The 80-foot platted street may be 77.42 on one end of the block and 80.16 on the other end, depending on how prior surveyors have chosen to establish monuments that still exist. Where the first surveys were called for in a block may greatly impact some other location in the same block. One example I use frequently involves an addition that was the west half of the southeast quarter of a section in1867. The plat adds up to a perfect 1320 feet by a perfect 2640 feet. Early development requiring surveys started near the center of the west side and, more or less, radiated out from there to eventually take in the entire tract. Guess what. By the time they reached the east side and the north and south sides they discovered there was excess land still available. Something like 15 feet extra on the east and about 30 feet on the north. So much had already been laid out that proportioning was not practical at a very late date. If someone from Timbuktu blew into town one day, found the monuments at the four corners of the aliquot part and then set monuments based on proportioning everything, they would be wise to be out of town by sundown and leave no contact information whatsoever. Two-thirds of Joe’s house would be on other people’s properties.
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I got a good lesson on blocks last year. I was doing an ALTA . I had never done a block in this state nor the city. But I went with what I knew while waiting on the research to be done so looking for evidence and mapping all other necessary items Buildings drives etc utilities. Parking stripes.
Well as I walked the back of curb I saw chiseled crosses at approximately lot lines. I turned those in as I ran control but found a bunch. Some if this curb was newer poured. Other was old cut stone from years past. At the intersection once i got the deed and block information I was pretty sure I had that nailed down except one corner but it had been very recently remodeled completely. New bricks for the walk way etc. The lot we were doing was very irregular shaped on the back away from all streets except this alley that ran east west and another that ran about 45 dgs SE. as i was working to define our parcel in the field the deed called for a tree. Oak in an original piece that was determined as I followed the chain of title. Well one tree partially existed. In the middle of a day care play area which had chainlink fence cameras and locked up like fort knox. I set a few points where I could define the diameter of the tree no leaves pretty rotten so i could only guess the species. I projected that to the block line where i had found two crosses chiseled at each end of one of the cut sections of old style curb. I wasn’t close so i must have measured those crosses 10 times they were nats on the distance between them. But it causes a big issue if i held either of them with my parcel and the adjoiners to that lot. I went home that day and I started scratching out on graph paper. Re read priority of calls. Re read all the evidence i had. I went back and held bearings and ran it through the tree and said man those crosses have to be right. Next morning i was back on site i stared at that section of curb and those two crosses . A contractor was on other side of the road cutting old curb section and pulled about a 10 ft section out. And i walked over to chat. I said what you doing. He said oh cutting this out so we can fill it in and set it back down so its not sinking. I said do you do this often. He said all the time. We try and salvage as much of this old stuff as we can and re use it. I walked back and measured from the two crosses to the cut ends. Guess what if you picked it up spun it 180 and set it back down the crosses matched all distances less than a dime and my bearings from shooting the diameter of the tree would have hit the cross if the curb was spun around about 3 tenths of a foot. Finally boss met me after work and we walked it he found the corner I couldn’t on other end. As he knew the survey who had set it which was the faintest scratch on a brick. But i showed him what I figured on the tree and he had got us access so they let us in and the sucker was the oak bottom half near ground was still alive and had starter limbs and a couple leaves . He laughed at all me head scratching on the curb and said yeah we don’t usually hold that evidence much as they might take a section of curb to a totally different block so it gets iffy real quick. I said yeah you could have warned me before i sat up all night trying to figure this thing out. He said keep doing what you are doing and go take your darn test. I took the first exam 3 weeks from that day. Still studying now.
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In a small town in the next county over a railroad runs along the section line. The southwest corner of the section falls on the center line of a city street and so many inches west of the centerline of the track. Found the mark in the crossing but it would not agree with the references for it. Finally figured out that the crossing had been pulled out during a railroad project. The crossing then somehow was rotated 180 degrees and set back in place almost perfectly. The next surveyor to come along will discover two monuments, the one I had to set and the one that might be almost correct if they make the same rotation again. Hoping the references remain intact. Don’t trust coordinates. The same opportunity occurs a half mile to the north, as well,
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This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by holy-cow.
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This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by
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Yeah coordinates can bite you for sure. I try and look at them as simply another tool in the toolbox. I try my best to look at everything and from different angles. I have a long way to go. But I am having fun for sure.
Now off to tag 3 calves. One is a special one as the 9 year old has chosen this one to show. So start getting it use to a halter and such. Fun times coming for sure.
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