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Chalk it to experience.
Rant on. An old friend calls me up and says his son need an asbuilt for a commercial real estate transaction. I told him if he needs it right away, he’d be best off calling another surveyor because I have a full time job and lots to do at home to ready for winter. But I’ve been looking to get a little experience in the private sector so I agree to do it for him for what I think is a reasonable price. Give me a chance to dust off my personal equipment and take it for a spin. He gives me the go ahead so I take one of my precious weekends, working in the rain all day, I get 90% of the field work done. This morning I get a call from his son’s wife. Oh, we just found a surveyor that will do it for less. So sorry. Chalking it up to experience. I will never, ever do work for anyone, even a close friend without a signed contract with the person writing the check. I bit my tongue and wished her a nice day. Lesson learned. Rant off.
Carry on.
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20 Replies
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> I will never, ever do work for anyone, even a close friend without a signed contract with the person writing the check. I bit my tongue and wished her a nice day
Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. The key is to remember who your friends are and recognize the significance of what you are providing “to benefit them”. Then tell them what that benefit is in terms they fully understand, and the potential liability to you.
Also, in many states a verbal contract with a defined scope is just as binding as any written contract. You may have recourse if you wish to pursue it. I hope my emboldened “her” isn’t a factor either, because you never want the little head leading the big head….so to speak.
$0.02
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That’s too bad; it is still hard for me to except that surveyors are viewed as a necessary evil in a large percentage of the market. I am continually compared to such services such as painters; mechanics and furnace repairman by clients, even the engineers for the bigger companies in Alaska seem to see little professional value in surveyors. Not that I think less of the people providing those services but I have a hard time equating my training, licensing requirements and liability as the same thing. I don’t know if it’s because of Alaska’s problem of substituting quality or professionalism for availability but I think the State of Alaska has done little to counteract these public impressions.
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I would still send them a bill for time worked, mostly to let them know how much time you already had in it.
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The way surveyors around here undercut each other, it’s really no wonder people have come to equate our professional services with furnace repairmen.
Willy -
> An old friend calls me up and says his son need an asbuilt for a commercial real estate transaction.
There’s the problem. You had no discussion with the people paying for the survey.
PS
I stand corrected. -
post script
Talked with the surveyor the client said had quoted the lower price. She didn’t know we’ve known each other for years. I use to party chief for him. He didn’t quote her anything. She was playing me. Called her back and told her I can send her a bill for the time I have into it, or, I can finsh it and they can have it in their hands next week. Either way I deserve to be compensated for my time.
Makes me realize how good I have it where I’m at. It’s dog eat dog out there!
Willy -
post script
> Talked with the surveyor the client said had quoted the lower price. She didn’t know we’ve known each other for years. I use to party chief for him. He didn’t quote her anything. She was playing me. Called her back and told her I can send her a bill for the time I have into it, or, I can finsh it and they can have it in their hands next week. Either way I deserve to be compensated for my time
:good: :good: :good:
I wish there was a “clapping hands” icon.
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Many years ago one of my partners told me to “never do anybody a favor”. At the time I thought this was a rather hardcore stance, and being young and foolish, did not heed his advice. Now, many years and a number of favors later, I can only say “Never do anybody a favor”. Nothing will get you in a bind quicker…
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Sounds like a real nice “old” friend that should be an ex-friend. With friends like that…..
Which is why I don’t work for friends (or family). I’d rather have you as a friend than lose you over a few dollars or a disagreement. Favors are still free, when and if I have the time. -
> …friend calls me up and says his son need an asbuilt for a commercial real estate transaction. …… I agree to do it for him for what I think is a reasonable price. ……. He gives me the go ahead ….
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> Carry on.I think that is a verbal contract, I agree I would send a bill for time and costs invested in the project.
You may never get it, and you may loose a ‘friend’, OTOH they may call you to complete your work!
JMO Jeff
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Exactly. Don’t ask your plumber friends to do plumbing for you and don’t agree to perform surveying for them. Absolutely help each other with other things outside your scope of earning a living. Inside the scope; pay for it or trade services.
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post script
good for you!
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“No Good Deed Goes Unpunished”
True Dat -
post script
She sounds like a lovely woman.
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Showed up to do a job one day and find lath and flagging all over the place. Bars with caps from one of the few nearby survey companies. Call the client. He tells me, “I told you I was in a hurry. So I called three companies and told you all to do it. Figured whoever got there first got the job and the paycheck.”
Let’s just say that things got a little ugly and he found out just how ugly when I hauled his tail to small claims court for not paying my bill for what I had done.
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My experience was similar but other way around. Client said I got the work for xx,xxx price. Went to his office to discuss the work. While in the meeting I asked for the contract so we could sign it and save another trip to get it. He said it was still being drafted. SoI wenthome and started preparing for the job.
Since the work was relatively big in scope and price, I called a total station dealer and got a new unit on terms. The additional unit would make my work 2x as fast. So dealer delivered the unit and I paid the downpayment, rest will be paid as the client pays me for work completed.
After I week, I got an email from the client, he syas he is dividing the work to 3 survey companies because he wanted it to be completed faster. I froze while reading the email. Called him up and said I already mobilised equipment and personnel for the work. He said it was not yet final since we havenot signed any contract yet!I had no choice but just accept the 1/3 project. Luckily I was able to convince the dealer to stretch the terms for the new unit.
Live and learn my friends – it does not exists if it is not written and notarised!
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That same thing happened to me but I happened to be the fastest surveyor in town. I got a call at lunch after just setting pins on a lot job. Another surveyor I know well called up and said he went to this job only to find my stakes in. He recognized my writing on the stakes as I found most or all of the corners and didn’t have caps out there.
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That happened to me a couple of years ago. I got a call from a fellow who could only survey on weekends. Said he had just shown up and found my caps and flags and flagging. He charged the idiot client for his prep work, took him to small claims to collect, and did collect just as I had in my much earlier case. This category of client is so confident that they did nothing wrong that they actually tell the truth when the judge asks them why they called two or more surveyors and told all of them to do the job.
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Sooo true.
Had a client I felt sorry for, and that we’d do the field work up front, and said we’d do a contract BEFORE the plat was filed, and we’d start the clock on payment at that point.
Of course I find out from other people along the way, that the client had a “history” locally as a “high risk” client/neighbor/business owner, and had a history of not paying. Great I say, I’ll have to take this one to court… sigh.
Find out from two other people that the client was THEN bragging about NOT paying me because they were mad that I wanted a contract signed before final delivery. Client, of course, expresses this anger to me finally, I say “fine, I’ll lien both parcels simultaneous with the filing of the plat”. Ok, they were fine with me filing on the one the client “told” me they were selling, but wouldn’t let me confirm that with the real estate agent, and forbid the agent from discussing the sale with me. I explain to them that I have no choice, since I don’t know which parcel they’ll sell now, since I have no idea WHAT is up for sale.
I finally get the contract signed, together with the original estimate (even with her greatly expanded scope which client then expected me to pay for ALL what were now “extra” expenses out of pocket). Of course was furious with me not trusting them, at my discussing putting a lien on both parcels.
Finish plat (with great interference from client I may add). Sale goes through finally. I start billing since I don’t hear from client. Second bill, I start adding in late charges, still no contact, no check. Third month goes by, still nothing, more late charges. Fourth month, finally a registered letter that an escrow account was set up by the title company for the value of they then assumed was the amount of my lien (which I had not filed, but should have looking back now). So, I get a call finally from the client to “negotiate” payment. At this point, I have had enough, and settle for original estimate, and write off the “extra” as an expensive lesson in compassion for the unfortunate.
THAT was the “good deed” part.
THEN,”the unpunished” part, client files a complaint with the state board against me…. tossed of course, for being a private contract matter….. but still, the time and expense of defending my license for a “good deed”, priceless.
SO, that pretty much sucked all the compassion out of me for awhile… it’s ALL business when it comes to my license.
“Good deed?”, Never again…..
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Not just there unfortunately…..
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