Another Surveyor wants my CAD file to copy…

[drratiug-survey]

For what itƒ??s worth, here is my input.

If you normally do not provide your cad files,  be honest and let them know it is not your policy to release your electronic files. It should be on the other surveyor to do their own research and provide the standard of care for their survey. If the client is willing to pay you for the electronic files,  they should be willing to pay the other firm to do the work they need to do (Iƒ??m sure itƒ??s going to be expensive, thatƒ??s why they are requesting the files to cut a corner). Bottom line they are most likely not going to be happy with your answer, but you should not let that make you break your resolve to keep your electronic files.

 

[just-a-surveyor]

I have done that in the past but I remove all the points and sanitize it.

But let be honest, is there any real advantage to having a cadd file, is there anything on it that cannot be recreated from a paper copy? 

I would likely share it if the other surveyor called and requested it but not at the behest of a client. It sounds like you have lost a client and he feels like he paid for your cadd file and has a right to demand it.

I would not send anything that you did not personally perform….such as the USGS data, that would quickly get removed and purged.

[CSHarmon]

Not being unreasonable. I’ve been asked this in the past and if the contract called for all work products to be owned by the client (rarely) he should already have them. If not I just explain its proprietary info that’s was used by me for me to create his survey and I don’t feel comfortable releasing it for others to use because you’re not controlling his work and could possibly extend you’re liability into the new survey. If he can’t accept that…tough luck I guess. It’s not like he doesn’t have a copy of the survey you did for him. It may take a while for the other guy to input the information but that’s surveying.

[nate-the-surveyor]

This one could get several answers.

“We lost our shirts on 1st job, we want 12k for the file”

“We have a policy of making money. It seems to be a violation of this policy, to give the file”.

Now, I do give my files away, or share them. But, that’s a 2 way street.

If you do share, sell it in credits. “If I give you this file, I have 25k in file credits, for future files, that you share with me”.

Just ideas.

N

Ps, field files generated with a Javad, are worth MORE than those generated otherwise.

[Norman_Oklahoma]

Those of us in recording states have this question all but answered for us.  Presumably you gave your client a map of some sort, via pdf or on paper. It’s a short step from there to CAD. I’d give them the CAD, but I wouldn’t just hand over my working files. I’d wblock out just the relevant linework, symbols, and annotations – just what is shown on your map.     

[brad-ott]

I almost always simply share my cad files Willy Nilly (with control points, etc included).

I also appreciate when others do the same for me.

[Unknown Member]

“ It seems that this guy just wants to copy my CAD file into his drawing to consolidate the lots and call it a day.”

Is that statement factual or is it conjecture? Either way Norman Oklahoma has it nailed. Don”t for get about reciprocation in the future.  ???? 

[WA-IDSurveyor]

Here in the recording states its pretty much a moot point and more trouble then its worth to ask for another surveyor’s cad file.  Just cogo the map up and move forward. 

If I was in a non-recording state I would charge them a nominal fee.  We are in the survey business after all.  What is it worth to him?  It’s obviously going to potentially save him some time so don’t put his burden on you. 

[bee]

My company sanitizes the file as well before releasing the CAD – points removed, etc.

However, I personally wouldn’t release a CAD file to the client – he may be under the illusion that if he presents the CAD file to the new surveyor, that he will get a discount of some sort “see, 2/3 of the  work is already done, therefore I only have to pay you 1/3 of the price, etc” which may not be true, and I would think (hope!) that any surveyor worth his salt would do his own due diligence in regards to the previous surveying work – if for no other reason than liability.  I would perhaps contact the other surveyor directly.  

[andy-j]

I generally would share files with other professionals.  I agree with others, that it would be a stripped down, linework only file.   Maybe even all on layer 0, in white, depending on what I think of the person asking. 

If a client asks for the cad file and really has no idea what to do with it, then I would say no.  They got the official signed and sealed map.  That’s the deliverable.   They don’t get my intellectual property (notes, private control files, digital files, etc.) without an up front request and contract. 

[paul-in-pa]

If you did the work at a price less than your work cost, so inform the client and other surveyor. Is was an investment in future work, which it appears you will not get. This is an opportunity to recoup some or all of your cost. You could consider a profit, but I would not.

I had a client years ago, that was behind in payment and we had gotten past multiple board meetings, when another firm convinced him they could do it cheaper. I agreed to release everything and even sit down with the other firm once I was compensated to date. I went to the clients office with a sealed copy of my survey, a set of plans to date, copies of my field book, laid them on the table. When no check was placed in my hand I picked everything up and left. Client rain out into the rain after me pleading to know avail. When the check was finally written I delivered all. It was six months before the other firm called me for a sit down. I was very thorough and it took several hours. Over the next year that firm and/or his partner bled him dry and never got to final approval. I never lost any sleep over it.

A few years later I was asked to survey an adjacent parcel, that had been transferred without referencing all of it’s partial deeds, over a sideline boundary dispute with the prior project. Having done thorough field work and research in the past, I pleased that attorney with a through multi tract description, referencing prior, prior deeds, and set a corner exactly where my previous survey projected it and on the abandoned trolley right of way line to the rear, that was also a part of my prior project. The attorney got more work out of it than I did, in finding a past executor and getting a full corrective deed, but I was  pleased.

Paul in PA

[leegreen]

Explain to the owner your concerns as you did here. Also, explain to the client why it may be more efficient for you to continue work on the project. Give him a price for the survey update, and the CAD file.

I’m licensed in NY, the only unethical part would be if you decided to strip the CAD file, (bastardizing it), then charge a fee. 

[holy-cow]

Licensed state.  One paper copy directly to the other surveyor after the two of you have had a friendly conversation.  No CAD file unless explicitly a part of your job, for which you have received payment in full.

[thebionicman]

Each state is unique, but a few itwms are consistent.

In this day and age a CADD file will have numerous styles and proprietary bits of info. If the contract spells it out you get some of that. If not, you get paper.

Assuming we agree you get the file you execute the re-use of docs agreement. In short you agree the file is just a partial working copy. My seal is removed and a note explaining what the file is and is not goes in its place. 

There are legitimate reason to get a CADD file. Talk about it before the survey. It’s not that hard…

[nesurveyor]

Thanks for the input everyone. 

[danbarry]

Our proposal & contracts, for NY & PA, the states in which I am licensed & practice, specifically state that a release of an electronic copy of the survey is NOT included. If the client wants a CAD file, we prepare a different contract, and then we charge extra accordingly, and specifically state that a CAD file will only be released to a Licensed Engineer or Land Surveyor. We do NOT release an editable file to someone who is not licensed.

we do share paper copies of our surveys with other surveyors who share theirs with us, cooperation is always better. It’s rare that the other surveyors would ask for electronic files, but we would surely consider that if they did. works both ways.

hope that this helps in some minuscule way. Dan Barry, NY & PA PLS

[a-harris]

I rarely share cadd files with anyone unless it is a request from the client when they order a survey with the electronic data included.

A few surveyors share some of the information in the past, now it is lucky to get a copy of part of a drawing that shows their working layer and not the final drawing.

With GPS and the strength of today’s TS and Robots, it is very easy to locate a few monuments to another tract and use public records to fill in the rest of their survey.

After doing that, if I see a problem with another’s surveyors work, I notify them and say “you got a bug in your survey” and try and get them to share and lets work this out to both our advantages.

Many times, I simply tell someone that those files have been archived due to software change and are not accessible with my current system and other times it is a straight out NO.

I have sold cadd files in the past for the same price as I charged for the original survey when the client had approved to share the information. Other times the client strictly forbid any sharing of any information to whoever ask. The only exception to that is when a court has ordered a copy or your BOR asks for a copy. Everyone else is not on the list.

[nate-the-surveyor]

Somebody recently shared a 10 yr old survey with me. It came complete with coords. It was performed with rtk.

A critical point in that file had 2 shots on it. My coord turned out to be 5.5′ from his. Yes, bad init.

Well, now, I’ve fd a mess up.

Put his file on grid bearings.

And cleaned up one end of a 1960’s subdivision.

If he does more work there, I’ve solved a few problems, and I’ll send it all back, in an improved condition. It is “value added”. And, I can also give him a complete spc file.

Nate

[spledeus]

I changed my CAD standards years ago to make it very difficult to share the good stuff.  Traverse and Boundary are XREFd in with one polyline for locus in the drawing.  Just about every drawing has an image.  I also send the file in a password protected ZIP with an Agreement.  At the bottom is the password.

[leegreen]

Not difficult to share “good stuff”, using Xref and unique CAD standards. Use the eTransmit package routine, to include all associated files.

I receive hundreds of files per year from Engineers, Architects, and Surveyors for construction projects. They follow many different CAD standards. Some of the survey drawings are the worst I’ve seen. For example, a recent survey DWG sent to me was on SPC. Without using Xref’s they copy and pasted the CAD survey within the same Model. Added a border and title block. Also had years of other title blocks, notes, and misc crap scattered within the Model. Not sure which is worse, not using any Xref’s or the cad operator binding all Xref’s into the model.  When I request CAD files I tell them to leave it the original CAD state, do NOT explode, translate or save AS. Telling to use eTransmit.