ALTA Question from DIRT Board

[Angelo Fiorenza]

Free help to an attorney to pursue a case against another surveyor……no way.

Let them engage the services of a surveyor from that state as a consultant.

[Unknown Member]

Ditto.

How hard can it be to READ the state rules and regs for what ever state the site is located.

Gotta be a newbee…

[Jeff D. Opperman]

Does anyone believe for a minute, that an attorney would give free advice or help to anyone who wished to use it to file suit against an attorney? This guy is fishing and using the wrong bait. I recall that for most if not all of the ALTA surveys that I ever performed, the deeds were to be furnished by the party requesting the ALTA or the title company (read attorney). I also remember that I never trusted them to get me the deeds that I needed and would do most of the deed research on my own.

[Daniel S. McCabe]

:good:

[snoop]

I only got paid $350 for that survey. How in the world was I supposed to check the adjoiners for overlaps for $350?!?!

[foggyidea]

I responded with a link to the MS board of registration and the standards of practice.

If we don’t police our brothers and sisters then who do you trust to do it for you???

I also gave him the names of the three texts, Clarks and both Brown books…

[Angelo Fiorenza]

“Policing”?

Again, why should any other surveyor get involved with this on a chat board level? (That’s what the DIRT Board is, isn’t it?)

What is being asked for here is expert opinion, something which none of us should be giving for free, at least not in a situation like this.

We don’t know ANYTHING about the circumstances, contractual agreements, fees, etc., etc., and speaking for myself, I don’t have any idea what the state of Mississippi wants to see done when performing surveys.

You are not “polic(ing) our brothers and sisters” unless you have more facts than what’s been posted here. You are jumping in with both feet into what could be an empty pool.

Even if you are licensed in Mississippi, you have just injected yourself into a situation where you have no business, until you have knowledge of the facts.

Maybe you were just kidding, but if you sent this attorney information, I hope he never uses your name in dealing with the other parties to this case….you could wind up facing an ethics charge yourself.

[Paul Plutae]

Would you trust this man?

Mr Jones

> From: Jones, Edley H. [mailto:[email protected]]
>
> I am in need of instructional and/or reference material used by surveyors, or court opinions, which address the duty of the surveyor under section 5(d) of the ALTA/ACSM standards to obtain the deeds of adjoining land owners and to locate the adjoining parcels to determine whether or not a boundary lines are contiguous. The section states that the surveyor shall make this determination “…where ascertainable from field evidence or Record Documents…”
>
> The issue arises from a surveyor’s ALTA/ACSM certificate that included the section 5(d) assertion of contiguity where, in fact, the surveyor did not obtain the deeds from the adjoining owners.

These deeds would have revealed clear boundary line encroachments.>
> Thanks in advance,

> Confidentiality Statement: This email may contain attorney-client privileged or confidential information.

Well..so much for the Confidentiality Statement 😀

I think that Mr Jones needs to study the words and and or. From my read he has taken upon himself to insert the word and in his staatement, where the ALTA section states or, big difference.

If it is a fact that the surveyor did not obtain the deeds of the adjoiners, not from them as Mr Jones states, then why even post a question about the ALTA on any board?

He also needs to study about deed contiguity and boundary line encroachments, big difference there as well.

I would give Mr Jones the time of day, but I do not think I would offer up a verbal rope so he can go on a witch hunt for a surveyor that may be a true professional.

[foggyidea]

“Policing”?- Angelo

I don’t agree with you. At least not on this subject. I re-read the post and he was looking for cites and background information. Supplying a link to the MS Board of Registration is hardly out of line. Telling him of Brown’s and Clarks’ boks is not interjecting myself into anything.

Since it’s an advocate asking the question I am aware that the facts as presented are probably skewed towards his client. I made no comment on his “facts.”

Would you testify against a surveyor if they were prosecuted by your Board of Registration? Have you ever filed a complaint with the Board regarding another surveyor’s work? Would you file a complaint?

I think that part of this “image” problem lies in the fact that we hide our transgressors. We don’t publish negligence issues when the Board’s act on them. Doctors and Lawyer we certainly hear about when they screw up. Part of improving our image has to be better policing of our profession. Any transgressors should be publicly flogged and locked in stocks for public inspection, figuratively I mean, of course…

[Angelo Fiorenza]

“Policing”?- Angelo

Herein lies my problem with your course of action:

1. “…..he was looking for cites and background information…..”

Well, he11, that’s his JOB. Someone, somewhere has hired this guy to do exactly that. Some surveyor from New York or Massachusetts shouldn’t be doing his research for him.

2. “Would you testify against a surveyor if they were prosecuted by your Board of Registration?”

Yes, if it was in MY STATE, and more particularly, if it was in THE AREA WHERE I PRACTICE, but ONLY after I gave the case due consideration, had access to all correspondence and a map of the survey, full knowledge of all the facts known to all other parties and (last but not least) was paid for my efforts. What we have here is some attorney trolling chat boards for advice…….free advice.

What else do you personally know about this case? Nothing.

Do you seriously think you are “policing” the surveying profession in Mississippi?

[foggyidea]

“Policing”?- Angelo

No I don’t Angelo, and I wouldn’t touch this with a 10′ stick, except as I have.

[DeletedUser]

Would you trust this man?

Wow Paul,
That little time that you spent in Tx sure has made you a lot smarter.
🙂
I agree ‘in toto’ in what your saying.

He needs to read all the requirements especially the ALTA requirements and he needs to engage (I hope for a nice retainer also) a local surveyor also.
I assume that he has a full staff that will do any of the case research that he may need.

[Paul Plutae]

Would you trust this man?

> Wow Paul,
> That little time that you spent in Tx sure has made you a lot smarter.

I guess I need to work on that…can’t be smart, no siree 🙂

[paden-cash]

I may be missing somethin’…

The third paragraph of the 2005 ALTA Standards plainly states that “Record Documents” are to be provided to the surveyor.

Item 5 (d)….”The survey shall indicate platted setback or building restriction lines which have been recorded in subdivision plats or which appear in Record Documents which have been delivered to the surveyor. Contiguity, gores, and overlaps along the exterior boundaries of the surveyed premises, where ascertainable from field evidence or Record Documents,or interior to those exterior boundaries, shall be clearly indicated or noted. Where only a part of a recorded lot or
parcel is included in the survey, the balance of the lot or parcel shall be indicated…..”

I’d tell him to piss up a rope..

[Mark Mayer]

I may be missing somethin’…

If the surveyor did not receive the record documents and proceeded with this survey without them he is still in the soup.

[Steve Adams]

I may be missing somethin’…

I cringe whenever I hear lawyers talking about “deeds overlapping”.

If you’re just looking at the bearings and distances, there are overlaps and gaps almost everywhere (on paper), but not usually on the ground.